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Worried about the combat

Generic gw2 archeage

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47 replies to this topic

#21
ranalin

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You are right, everyone has right to write his/her opinion. But im here longer then you are, and ive seen where are things went/going with this combat mechanic discussion, and those who hate the tab-targetting combat system should search for another game, rather than crying here for wanting changes!

 

Personally i don't care about the combat system of an MMO, im fine with both if they are done properly. For me the combat system is AA is just fine as i said and it doesn't need an "actionization".

 

I dont think any here is saying making it action oriented.  Just pointing out that it may not stick due to the new fad that people seem to be flocking to.  Just because you've been around longer than the rest of us doesnt mean all of us new folks cant go over the same material.  If that was the case nothing would ever get posted.


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#22
Miyafuji

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If the people want it so bad, why all the games that had it were such a failures?

 

You gotta ask yourself a question, if some of those guys liked the system... why are they here and not playing that game, none of these games are even year old yet they are in complete ruin, with major design flaws and forced to FPT, aka dying mmo market.

 

" just because Llexx bla bla." Look, imagine you discussed  something to the very detail. And then comes someone and you have to explain it again. OK... and again.. and again.. and by this point you just want to murder them right away. Thats normal. Its simply irritating. Some did not even bother looking for it and yet they expect an answer. Llexx knows a lot about the game, he is one of the most informed. Its not about him being here long, its about him caring. He made so many guides, translations, he was digging in places where I would have given up the first second. So take his answers a bit differently, as there is a lot of experience and truth behind them. When he answers you, he is actually trying to help you.

 

The most resourceful solution would be... to just ignore, like I have been doing after our Admin told me ( including the little 7 days chatban ) himself that my behavior towards new people is problematic. So yeah ill just be ignoring them and their topics cause I cannot do any better. Unless they create something interesting off course. Be always ready for the good and positive exceptions.  And yet he is here, trying to be helpful. So, you know what I mean.


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#23
ranalin

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The amount of effort that Llexx has done is amazing and definitely appreciated but, time served isnt an excuse for bad manners... just saying.  Until things get better organized for NA consumption there's going to be a lot of repeat conversations.

 

As for the whole action thing...  It's a fad at least until someone does it right. (honestly i'd love the combat system from Chilvary inside a mmo)  It's something different from the mind numbing 1,2,3,4 boredom that WoW became.  People are going to come to AA and check it out because it advertises something different.


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#24
Dartimien

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I think it is important to understand that the evolution of ideas is divergent. We are not simply scaling up a ladder of MMO-epicness. Action style combat is not simply the next rung on the ladder, it is a branch of a tree. Yes the idea is new in the market of large MMO developers, and we can experiment with making it a large part of a combat system, or only adopting pieces of it. It most certainly is not absolutely the best combat system like so many forumites think it is, as it is simply a different perspective on combat.

 

Now for my personal opinion XD... I am glad to see archeage feature tab targeting. I freaking love that style of combat because I can focus more on strategy and be sure that the target I am trying to hit will be the focus of my cooldowns. There is nothing worse than wasting an important skill on an opponent whos movement was hard to predict either because of unusual hitboxes or latency. And if we are going to have 100v100 battles, latency will definitely be an important issue to consider.


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#25
0badiah

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While I've never played Darkfall, this is the reason I like the classic combat system to begin with. To me all RPGs (online or otherwise) should have a combat system that rewards players for great strategy and great builds. Someone who spends hours finding good builds and counters to destroy a certain type of fighter should be rewarded for that time spent on the strategy. In my opinion of course.

To me it's the equivalent of a friend of mine saying he can't beat a boss on a turn based RPG....I load up his own save file....analyze his characters and abilities then beat the boss. And he asks me "How'd you do that?" And I know respond, "it's all about strategy and how you use the abilities."

 

This^..

 

Once upon a time, it wasn't necesarily your gear that determined how good One was..  , but (again^) how you "provisioned" your character. (ie: In EQ, what 8 spells you had loaded, had massive ramifications for the whole party).

 

Once upon a time... the person behind a Character mattered. Their cunning and intuition mattered. 


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#26
Dranthos

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Is strategy not considered a skill anymore? I would think using your brains is as valuable as twitch skills.

^ +1.

 

This made me think of an mmo where twich skills > combat strategy... still thinking.


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#27
LlexX

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And for your misinformation, AA is not using the classic tab-targeting combat, its a tweaked/improved one.

 

Whats tweaked in AA's combat compared to the rest? Do some research an you will see!

Some hints: real physics, collision detection (no ghost effect), improved obstacle detection, 10 skill trees resulting in 120 different class combinations and countless of different builds, skill combos, more than 50 skills for usage per player (counting skills from class trees, items, mounts, pets, siege machines, gliders and so on), combat on the ground (player vs player, mount combat, pet combat, siege warfare), combat on the sea (ships), combat in the air (gliders)...

 

And you dare call the combat outdated and old? And you dare to say that no skill is needed? I just laugh on people who are coming out with these conclusions! AA is one of the most tactical MMOs ever and not in a solo but in a group way!



#28
Ruj

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AA's combat is MUCH more involved than WoW.

 

Mobs shoot fire at where you stand rather than AT you. There are mechanics involved in AA lvl 3 mobs that only WoW's raid bosses have.

 

AA isn't close to being as great as TERA or Age of Conan. Yes, that's very true. 

 

I will be playing TERA on the side whenever I want better combat.

 

However, I LOVE housing. Decorating! Farms! Battleships! Underwater gardens! RP-PvP gain of housing territory! 

 

I think AA's combat is JUST right for its target audience. There are plenty of RPers who are put off by the level of skill needed to pvp in games like TERA or Age of Conan. 

 

Do I think AA's combat will deter people from playing it? Yes. BUT I think in deterring those people - they will reach a wider audience (the casuals and RPers) and that will net them more $$$$. 

 

Games like Age of Conan failed because people need SKILL to PvP in them. There simply aren't enough MMO gamers that are willing to put in the practice sessions needed to learn how to move and position yourself correctly.


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#29
Alasondra

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If the people want it so bad, why all the games that had it were such a failures?

 

You gotta ask yourself a question, if some of those guys liked the system... why are they here and not playing that game, none of these games are even year old yet they are in complete ruin, with major design flaws and forced to FPT, aka dying mmo market.

 

" just because Llexx bla bla." Look, imagine you discussed  something to the very detail. And then comes someone and you have to explain it again. OK... and again.. and again.. and by this point you just want to murder them right away. Thats normal. Its simply irritating. Some did not even bother looking for it and yet they expect an answer. Llexx knows a lot about the game, he is one of the most informed. Its not about him being here long, its about him caring. He made so many guides, translations, he was digging in places where I would have given up the first second. So take his answers a bit differently, as there is a lot of experience and truth behind them. When he answers you, he is actually trying to help you.

 

The most resourceful solution would be... to just ignore, like I have been doing after our Admin told me ( including the little 7 days chatban ) himself that my behavior towards new people is problematic. So yeah ill just be ignoring them and their topics cause I cannot do any better. Unless they create something interesting off course. Be always ready for the good and positive exceptions.  And yet he is here, trying to be helpful. So, you know what I mean.

Not every game is going to be for everyone. This is what makes Archeage so attractive to many of us. Every game that comes down the pike lately seems to attract a certain subset of players that want to have it cater to them or else they proclaim that the end of the world is near. I find it interesting, that as pointed out by LadyZENITH, all of the games that cater to that subset seem to either fail or be converted to F2P within a year as they cannot sustain enough players to actively subscribe to them. 

 

Archeage has been developed with the intent of trying to reach as broad an audience as possible while ensuring that the mechanics work as intended. People like Llexx, LadyZENITH and many others have invested a huge amount of time in this game so they have a well informed platform by which to give an opinion. Just because their opinion does not suit your desired gaming experience is not their fault, nor that of the developers. It is your expectation that might need to be revised. Healthy debate is always good and can encourage developers to consider things that they might not have before. Useless arguing is just that, useless.


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#30
AridAzrael

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It seems to me That AA isn't all about the combat or fighting (no raids no dungeons) like tera, its all about farming mats and exploring the huge ass world that is why i think it will survive with its weaker combat system (no one can say its combat system is a weak point), But you can't forget the wide range of abilities and uniqueness u can bring to your character with 120 different combination of builds and even more because u can choose which skill to take.

 

And my thoughts on the system its more like Guild wars2 combat (without the dodge roll, How I will miss the dodge roll) Where from the videos i have seen the spells interact with the enviroment alot more than wow did. I.e. you knock them down, you lift them up etc etc


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#31
Saint Walker

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Am I the only player who LIKES the 'old' tab targeting system?

 

 

Its basically the system I 'grew up' with and know inside and out. And IM COMFORTABLE WITH IT AS WELL AS LIKE IT.

 

 

I don't want some new fangled system thats trying to be different and unique just for the sake of being different and unique, ya know?

 

 

 

Don't change a thing XL, your doing awesome!


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#32
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Am I the only player who LIKES the 'old' tab targeting system?

 

 

Don't change a thing XL, your doing awesome!

No, the tab targeting hotkey system works, It's great and it's functional, I'm not sure anyone is opposing that.

BUT!!

"Dont change a thing, you're doing awesome" - This is the kind of fanboyism that leaves games in a horrible state leaving them with a 2-3 month lifespan. They need to change a lot in my opinion, they need to add a lot too...

Off topic, I know, but that's the attitude which is leaving the western world in such a dumbed down robotic sheep like state.. it's all "good job! you're doing great! dont change for anyone!" giving praise to the kid who finished fourth.. yes, he did his best, but his best isnt good enough. :)


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#33
Alasondra

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No, the tab targeting hotkey system works, It's great and it's functional, I'm not sure anyone is opposing that.

BUT!!

"Dont change a thing, you're doing awesome" - This is the kind of fanboyism that leaves games in a horrible state leaving them with a 2-3 month lifespan. They need to change a lot in my opinion, they need to add a lot too...

Off topic, I know, but that's the attitude which is leaving the western world in such a dumbed down robotic sheep like state.. it's all "good job! you're doing great! dont change for anyone!" giving praise to the kid who finished fourth.. yes, he did his best, but his best isnt good enough. :)

I agree with you 100%. I'm only happy with the use of tab-targeting as the only other options that have been presented thus far, Tera/Age of Conan..., have not been particularly well received by the majority of gamers. I would like to see a better system, but I've yet to play one that I felt works better. I am however all for developers testing new mechanics and systems within games to make them better. I feel that Archeage has done this, but more so with the immersion and non-combat mechanics of the game. 


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#34
ranalin

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I agree with you 100%. I'm only happy with the use of tab-targeting as the only other options that have been presented thus far, Tera/Age of Conan..., have not been particularly well received by the majority of gamers. I would like to see a better system, but I've yet to play one that I felt works better. I am however all for developers testing new mechanics and systems within games to make them better. I feel that Archeage has done this, but more so with the immersion and non-combat mechanics of the game. 

 

AoC problems werent issues with it's combat and that proves there's more to a game than just the combat


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#35
Alasondra

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AoC problems werent issues with it's combat and that proves there's more to a game than just the combat

I don't neccessarily think that AoC's combat was bad, it just seemed a little bland and repetitive to me.


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#36
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I don't neccessarily think that AoC's combat was bad, it just seemed a little bland and repetitive to me.

if you climbed Mt Everest enough, it would too become bland and repetitive... it's ridiculous that combat is even a thing to talk about...

Especially when Warhammer had the best combat from an mmo in the last 2 or so years.


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#37
ranalin

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if you climbed Mt Everest enough, it would too become bland and repetitive... it's ridiculous that combat is even a thing to talk about...

Especially when Warhammer had the best combat from an mmo in the last 2 or so years.

 

Going to have to agree to disagree about the Warhammer combat :P


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#38
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Going to have to agree to disagree about the Warhammer combat :P

Prove me wrong, skills felt like they were going off smoothly, the animations were practically perfect, hits felt like hits instead of just hitting air.. everything was paced nicely, it didn't feel like you were spamming keys.


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#39
Benseine

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The "actiony" combat is definitely a fad.

It was an attempt to be different, but it has never added anything exciting to a game... I find it terribly boring when it's all left click right click, hold left click, double right click..

Age of conan did it pretty well though I have to say ;)

Selling a game based on it's combat is like selling a house based on its plumbing... no one cares as long as it works. Too many publishers/devs have tried to sell their game based on it's plumbing... instead of its structure.

Age of Conan did pretty well cause it had sprint (sprint linked to stamina bar) wich made it fast paced and dynamic. And ofc the combo system (not like AA combo system, check youtube vid): 

 

Ppl looking for this kind of experience might not find it in AA cause AA has basic tabtargetting and nothing more. What makes AA pvp interesting is the class system on one char (no need for alts) and the game's pvp content.


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#40
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Age of Conan did pretty well cause it had sprint (sprint linked to stamina bar) wich made it fast paced and dynamic. And ofc the combo system (not like AA combo system, check youtube vid): 

 

Ppl looking for this kind of experience might not find it in AA cause AA has basic tabtargetting and nothing more. What makes AA pvp interesting is the class system on one char (no need for alts) and the game's pvp content.

 

How is the AA's class system any different than any game when you are talking about no needs for alts?


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