Jump to content

Development of ArcheAge began sometime in 2006.
Welcome to ArcheAge Source
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Why PvP Servers make sense if safezones are not revamped


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
78 replies to this topic

#1
KeksX

KeksX

    Community Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip

I want to start this thread with this quote:

 

There is no such thing as a hardcore server. if it was hardcore everyone's characters would be perma lost if they died. all they want is a PvP server. So they can kill level 1s in no longer existing safe zones.

 

This is NOT the reason PvP servers are needed. Nobody wants to farm lowbies, thats no fun and doesn't serve any purpose. However, there are other ways to protect low-lvl players. Just unflag everyone <Lv30 from PvP and it's fine. Because thats basically what the current system does: You're out of PvP as long as you don't hit Lv30, then your questing zones are flagged either way. The real problem is not that lowbies are not getting killed, the real problem is that high lvl players "abuse"(as in use it to their own advantage) this system heavily.

 

If you take a quick look at the map, I'll show you some common traderoutes.

http://abload.de/img/bspozuxs.png

(don't judge my mad paint skills, also there are more routes and more routes incoming with the new starting areas - but all of them will be safe!)

Red lines = dangerous route.

Light blue lines = dangerous routes that get safe within peacetime/safezone abuse

Blue lines = completely safe routes

Pink = dangerous route that get fucked by safezone system on other continent(only attacked guy can defend)

 

As you can see, some traderoutes are not safe. You head directly into the sea and can get attacked. However, there are many routes that you can abuse safezones and peacetimes where you make a big profit without ever getting attacked. You could literally just take 4 tradeships and bring them through the safezones and make a major profit out of them. 

 

And if you look at the eastern continent(http://abload.de/img/bsp2lfun6.png), you can see that the PvP Zones there, excluding Ynystere, are all way into the continent. That means that IF you want to go there, you have to teleport there. Theres no way you can just sail over there and have PvP/trade/explore, because:

If you get into a safezone, you can only defend yourself against the guys attacking you. Your friends in your party can't help you other than healing you. 

 

This not only makes for a fucked up trading system where you, if you invest enough time, can avoid PvP at all cost and completely undermine the openpvp system that XLGames created, (With the peacetime on Liberty Island, this was even more of a problem!), but also creates a fucked up situation where you, as a Lv50 guy from another faction(even player made faction?) can't explore the fucking eastern continent because even if you're in a group you can't properly defend yourself.

 

Lowies have to be protected, but the current system does way more than that. It interferes with so many gamplay aspects people don't even think about.

 

So next time people say "We need PvP servers" don't think of them as lowie gankers, think of them as traders, mercenaries, explorers and pirates. Think of them players that want to have the maximum amount of risk for the maximum amount of reward. 

Because these players profit from a PvP Server.

 

EDIT:

Cross-Posted this to the german Community.

http://archeage-onli...


RU Info: Server 4, ТАЯН, Zerus / Tiamat, Almost Russian

EU Guild: Aurorian Empire | http://aurorian-empire.eu/

What You Should Know About ArcheAge! http://archeagesourc...about-archeage/

(Discontinued) Korean Retail and PTR News! http://archeagesourc...etail-ptr-news/ http://archeagesourc...l-general-news/

English Guides and Tutorials List by LlexX! http://archeagesourc...st-to-archeage/


#2
Tsopolo

Tsopolo

    Community Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
The problem is there are a vast majority of people that do not want to PvP 24/7 just to do menial tasks.

I can't reiterate enough just how freaking important PvP servers and PvE servers are there has to be two.

The PvE servers would be what they currently are now western and eastern continents are safe zones except from pirates from each others opposite. Plus open world PvP in the other 2/3s of the world. (Ocean and northern continent.)

And PvP worlds would be all open world PvP with restrictions on cities and low level players. but honestly for someone who doesn't like to play with other people all the time a server like this can be counter productive.

There simply needs to be the two.

Trade routes might need tweaking on PvE servers but that's another subject

Riders of Bubona

moo.guildlaunch.com


#3
KeksX

KeksX

    Community Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip

Thats my point, if you don't revamp the safezones there should be servers with the system I suggested(obviously with some adjustments so nobody can exploit it further.)

 

People just seem to reject the idea of seperate servers for whatever reason.


RU Info: Server 4, ТАЯН, Zerus / Tiamat, Almost Russian

EU Guild: Aurorian Empire | http://aurorian-empire.eu/

What You Should Know About ArcheAge! http://archeagesourc...about-archeage/

(Discontinued) Korean Retail and PTR News! http://archeagesourc...etail-ptr-news/ http://archeagesourc...l-general-news/

English Guides and Tutorials List by LlexX! http://archeagesourc...st-to-archeage/


#4
Tsopolo

Tsopolo

    Community Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
Don't worry man Trion knows what they are doing. I think its pretty safe to say there will be PvE PvP and RPPvE and maybe RPPvP(huge maybe)

Servers that is

Riders of Bubona

moo.guildlaunch.com


#5
Inporylem

Inporylem

    Donater

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip

Don't worry man Trion knows what they are doing. I think its pretty safe to say there will be PvE PvP and RPPvE and maybe RPPvP(huge maybe)

Servers that is

 

Pretty sure if there will be a PvP server it will be the same we have now and the PvE server wouldn't allow pking at all.

The PvP servers of any theme park I have played in past few years have have been safe zone infested.

Also it's not only the safe zones that are totally fucked up the flagging system doesn't really make any sense at the moment either.



#6
Tsopolo

Tsopolo

    Community Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip

Pretty sure if there will be a PvP server it will be the same we have now and the PvE server wouldn't allow pking at all.
The PvP servers of any theme park I have played in past few years have have been safe zone infested.
Also it's not only the safe zones that are totally fucked up the flagging system doesn't really make any sense at the moment either.


Of all the MMOs I have played that were made my american companies or were westernized PvP servers have all been the same.

The only safe zones are designated in game cities. and a few select special areas like mirage island in archeage. Because the potential to grief is too great.

I do not see why Trion would do it any differently.

The only thing PvP server wise I've heard of differently is eve online and it's one interconnected world. While the safe zones are safe you still get griefed by people who will alpha your HP at the cost of their life.

Other than that not single game of all the MMOs I've played worked any differently.

Trion isn't stupid. They aren't going to fuck up a potentially huge cash cow MMO for them.

I could be wrong but as far as I know this game is still pay to play. And if it stays that way(and it should) it'll generate a lot of revenue and a plethora of future content.

--

In any case it's too early to get worked up now man. E3 is tomorrow id just pace back b forth like everyone else until 6 pm at the latest is my guess and then we can run around like chickens with our heads cut off in the excitement or the severe disappointment.


:>

Riders of Bubona

moo.guildlaunch.com


#7
Inporylem

Inporylem

    Donater

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip

It is f2p already.

 

Doesn't matter how much people like safe zone anyone who is red to you should be kill able doesn't matter if you are inside a city or not. Why the hell would you add forced factions to a game and still limit where you can attack your enemies. Devs could finally realize that forced factions are total shit. Why to force people to play PvP if they don't want to? That only leads to safe zone infested games to keep population happy. Stupid if you ask me.



#8
Miyafuji

Miyafuji

    Hidoi !

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPip

Problem of AA are those resurrection statues, they are absolutely everywhere and safezone is around them. There is no ganking on real PKing outside of sea in AA cause none cares. No death penalty and you get ressed right there, 50 meters from here. Its not worth the time you lose more by pking then the victim. Nobody with senses will do that. I do not want another game where I do not care if I die, if you know what I mean.

 

IMHO they need to be removed for PVP servers. That is the number 1 problem. Assuming liberty island is not safezone and other complete game ruining decisions that XL was able to produce.



#9
Kriptini

Kriptini

    Community Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
There are no safe zones in Rift. On Seastone, the PvP server, anyone can be killed anywhere at any time. It's glorious.

So maybe Trion will try to set up a similar server in ArcheAge. Maybe.

#10
Tsopolo

Tsopolo

    Community Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip

It is f2p already.

Doesn't matter how much people like safe zone anyone who is red to you should be kill able doesn't matter if you are inside a city or not. Why the hell would you add forced factions to a game and still limit where you can attack your enemies. Devs could finally realize that forced factions are total shit. Why to force people to play PvP if they don't want to? That only leads to safe zone infested games to keep population happy. Stupid if you ask me.


Is it really f2p? I've read several posts on here saying that it was just f2p for some kind of Korean holiday event. and that in order to get labor points you still have to pay for the sub.

Riders of Bubona

moo.guildlaunch.com


#11
Jamja

Jamja

    Community Member

  • Members
  • PipPip

Tsopolo have you played korean AA?



#12
Reorks

Reorks

    Community Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip

I dont have played game in korea so i can't really be sure how server system would work in the west,but...

 

If this game is aimed to a PvP audience in terms of guilds and players,what would be the point of having pve servers?

'cuz this is the issue,how will they handle the sieges,the custom factions,the gathering spots that should be contested between enemy groups and so on?

Will they roll a dice instead of killing each other over the objectives that makes the game worth to be played?

 

ArcheAge is not meant to follow the path of such a failure like tera where the biggest % of the playing population aims just to create a nice character and farm instances.

So i really dont see a point for pve servers,expecially considering what has been said about resurrection points and safe zones,unless those are gettin completely removed in the PvP servers,maybe making some FFA PvP system in place of the continental factions that i see as a crippling factor for real pvpers.


If I should fall to rise no more,
As many comrades did before,
Then ask the fifes and drums to play.
Over the hills and far away.
To fall in lads behind the drum,
With colours blazing like the sun.
Along the road to come-what may.
Over the hills and far away.


#13
Alasondra

Alasondra

    Community Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip

Somewhere in this, a balance needs to be established. A pure FFA PvP game will leave AA with a niche population and a slow death. Catering completely to the PvE crowd and making everything safe turns AA into the same theme-park drivel that we have all over the landscape. EQ2's PvP servers died because there was never enough pop to sustain them. Vanguard took it completely out of the game because of technical issues, but never fixed them because there were not enough players to support them. Why can't a balance be struck, similar to Pirates of the Burning Sea, where PvP is the major focus, but allowing those that are leery to avoid it or slowly work their way into it? Why can't the "safe zones' be structured to give less benefit? Making some profit keeps players using them, but teases them with better profits/faster progression for sticking their toe in the water and taking a few chances. Maybe each continent could have a 'Navy' of NPC ships, ala Concord Navy/Eve? I played KR for a small time and only leveled to 21 but never experienced any PvP at all. I didn't go looking for it per se, but didn't go out of my way to avoid it either so I don't really have a grasp on how to compare it. But I do think that making separate servers does nothing but make the problem worse. AA just wasn't designed to work one way or the other imho.


"We need to enhance our security..."


#14
Tsopolo

Tsopolo

    Community Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
The game will be fine if the current PvE server system in archeage stays the same but fixes trade route issues and fixes other key safe zone issues.

But if the game is going to survive in the united states. There has to be pure PvP servers. If you don't cater to all audiences then you lose that audience. And then the game will fail because of low population. The game goes free to play and then in a year or two there's only one server with enough people to have a community and then the game has talks of shutting down.

It happens all the time.

If you have PvP servers only you'll prolly have a million accounts within first two months maybe more and then everyone will quit and servers will start merging/shutting down. Majority of MMO gamers will not play on a PvP only server it's a statistically proven fact.

As someone who personally likes the concept of Korean retails current PvE server system I would play on a server that has two main lands as safe zones with a open PvP ocean and a third open PvP continent. Because if I want to relax and explore the game I can but if I want a dangerous thrill I just have to cross the line.


I understand every one else's opinions here and some of you like the pure PvP feel. but you're a niche of people that is relatively small in comparison to most mmo gamers.

Look at wow. even tho wow is failing on a yearly basis now and have gone from a once near 13-14 mill subs they are now down to just under 8.3 and have publically that the number will drop way more by the end of the year.

With wow tho they have a server ratio of 70-75% PvE based versus PvP based. I'm including rp and rppve servers in that figure since they have the same server rules.


And someone better not make a freaking comment about how the largest server is a PvP server because anyone who actually played vanilla would know that server is the game's first server and has a popularity based on it's reputation. The top 3 guilds in the world still reside on it if I'm not mistaken. and this server was made back in a time of wow when the only servers were PvP rulesets.

This is also a great key point to point out that blizzard, just like ultima online, found out the need for a non PvP environment and therefore created it.

PvP only games tend to fail with few exceptions persisting thru the barrier because of how they function. Like call of duty (god fucking forbid) but it makes a billion on every title release. It's also not a MMO tho to be bi partial.

Riders of Bubona

moo.guildlaunch.com


#15
KeksX

KeksX

    Community Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip

@Alasondra:

Getting NPCs involved in this completely defeats the purpose of a sandbox imho.

 

My point is: The current system neither pleases PvE players nor PvP players. It just limits both to such an extent that there are major problems(Inpo already mentioned another one I didnt talk about enough in the OP; the tagging system) that just make it worse for everyone. We need to address this, either with a revamp of the safezones on ALL servers or seperate servers.


RU Info: Server 4, ТАЯН, Zerus / Tiamat, Almost Russian

EU Guild: Aurorian Empire | http://aurorian-empire.eu/

What You Should Know About ArcheAge! http://archeagesourc...about-archeage/

(Discontinued) Korean Retail and PTR News! http://archeagesourc...etail-ptr-news/ http://archeagesourc...l-general-news/

English Guides and Tutorials List by LlexX! http://archeagesourc...st-to-archeage/


#16
Inporylem

Inporylem

    Donater

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip

Why do people think that If they would introduce a PvP server it would mean ffa everywhere? I'm talking about the god damn factions. Your enemies should be attack-able doesn't freaking matter where they are period. This is the sole reason why forced factions are so god damn retarded. Now, because of the forced factions we have this carebearish game. Without them we could have the people who want to PvP PvPing where they please and the ones that doesn't want to PvP would be safe in the safe zones we have now (those would be the ones that doesn't want to join any factions). THen there would be the red ones who could be attacked anywhere they are too, but obviously they couldn't attack anyone inside a safezone unless they would be flagged to him.

 

It's not really rocket science to make a working PvP, but for some fucking reason every game has been like this since world of warcraft. With a working system there would be faction people fighting eachother in the whole aa world. It would actually mean something when you join a faction you would have to defend yourself and not just run next to a closes guard and laught at your ENEMIES. I'm quite sure they will continue this retarded thinking and when they actually introduce the playermade factions they will work just like the factions are working now which makes them another pile of crap.

 

I don't have anything against safe zones they work just like they should. But in the name of god do they apply to everyone, whose retarded idea was this?



#17
KeksX

KeksX

    Community Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip

I need motivation for your character. If the game doesnt tell me I should kill that guy I have no reason to! There can't be politics ingame other than those imposed by the developers!


RU Info: Server 4, ТАЯН, Zerus / Tiamat, Almost Russian

EU Guild: Aurorian Empire | http://aurorian-empire.eu/

What You Should Know About ArcheAge! http://archeagesourc...about-archeage/

(Discontinued) Korean Retail and PTR News! http://archeagesourc...etail-ptr-news/ http://archeagesourc...l-general-news/

English Guides and Tutorials List by LlexX! http://archeagesourc...st-to-archeage/


#18
Miyafuji

Miyafuji

    Hidoi !

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPip

I need motivation for your character. If the game doesnt tell me I should kill that guy I have no reason to! There can't be politics ingame other than those imposed by the developers!

 

This is forum full of American idiots. ( I do especially mean those that did grow on WOW ).

 

You cannot say such an obvious irony cause they will not get it and actually think you do mean it....

 

And Wanderer was off course right in his post, completely agree.

 

Most of the people that do want any sort of factions are those who...

 

A. - Are afraid of be in free game cause they would have to use diplomacy, logical thinking, and goal picking, aka BRAIN.

B. - Never played anything else and are afraid of anything new.

 

You will never find anyone who played faction free game who would want factions in his game. None.



#19
Leonyn

Leonyn

    Community Member

  • Members
  • PipPip

Well inpo and i were talking about this topic for hours, and in the end i would suggest to increase the amount of turn in NPCs and remove the safezones once you hit the water. The Problem we had was that people were simply running from safezone to safezone and still get some decent mileage out of it without the danger of being attacked once (except for some small holes in the safe zone). So in my opinion they should do the following:

 

1. Increase amount of turn in NPCs (that would help spreading out the trade ships and people across the game world)

2. Remove any safe zone on the water

3. Decrease the amount of cash you get when turning in inside your own continent

 

It can be really frustrating to hunt for 2-3 hours and only get 5 crates out of it because people were safe zone hugging and even when they had to drive through a hole... what they simply did was to park the ship in the safe zone and wait until we were gone, because we had no means to engage them.



#20
Dracosblood

Dracosblood

    Community Member

  • Members
  • PipPip

2. Remove any safe zone on the water ??

 

Wouldn't that cause issues for the people that want to build on islands, causing even more houseing issues?