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Synergy Between Class Trees


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#1
Rip

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I have been working on a spreadsheet that shows all of the synergies between the different class trees. I may be missing a couple, I'm not sure. Its still a work in progress. Take a look and let me know. Thanks!            

 

Edited spreadsheet on 6/24/13 

1. Added in missing silence synergy to Illusion class

2. Added all known buffs with synergy

 

 Attached File  Archeage Synergies Spreadsheet.pdf   103.53KB   248 downloads



#2
Dartimien

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Does anyone else wish they didn't have such obvious synergy, and were more self contained classes?



#3
Kriptini

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Does anyone else wish they didn't have such obvious synergy, and were more self contained classes?

 

No.

 

After playing Rift for almost three years, I welcome the synergy between trees.



#4
Dartimien

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I think there would be more viable class combinations if there was less synergy, seems like the pros would outweigh the cons



#5
KeksX

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So how many viable combinations are there?

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#6
Kriptini

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I think there would be more viable class combinations if there was less synergy, seems like the pros would outweigh the cons

 

I don't understand.



#7
LlexX

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I think there would be more viable class combinations if there was less synergy, seems like the pros would outweigh the cons

You know, there is more in AA than just soloing...



#8
Inporylem

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LIKE BACKFLIPPING

#9
KeksX

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And sniffing on cow poop

RU Info: Server 4, ТАЯН, Zerus / Tiamat, Almost Russian

EU Guild: Aurorian Empire | http://aurorian-empire.eu/

What You Should Know About ArcheAge! http://archeagesourc...about-archeage/

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#10
Dailato

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nice work RIP, a couple of things I was missing: silence is used by the illusion skill "cleanse" to inflict disarmament. Buffs such as the "charge" buff from the will tree are not included.

 

Another thing that would be very nice to add would be debuffs that can be inflicted by ability combos (E.G. poison can be inflicted by hell spears from death + ravens from death) making a seperate column for that would be very useful for figuring out more combos I feel.



#11
Amaterasu

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I think there would be more viable class combinations if there was less synergy, seems like the pros would outweigh the cons

Not sure about that, there would be a risk of combat turning into just a giant spam of random skills without any thoughts on the player side.

 

Now the current synergy between skills has been kept to a very basic level, but it forces player to think at least a tiny bit about what they are doing, instead of just throwing everything they have (which a % of the population still probably does though sadly).



#12
Elrodeus

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The problem is you almost feel "forced" to pick certain abilities down trees even if you don't want them because the "synergy" between the two trees is too much damage to ignore once you've invested points in those trees.

So basically you're like, "well I didn't want the fireball spell but I better get it, because this backflip skill is right here and I can get a free 0 second fireball cast if I get. So now let me get these two skills that I don't care about because I'd have to be stupid to pass up an evade ability with a free cast time."

So basically synergy is making the choice of skills for you rather than the skills just being picked by their merits alone.

Danger and inconvenience are powerful motivators in getting people to work together, to reach out and meet new people, and to actually play an MMO as if there is a desire to acknowledge the "massively" and "multiplayer" aspect of the acronym.... Removing either (or both) from a game that features any type of openworld pvp is a mistake, at least in my opinion.


#13
KeksX

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You can't make assumptions like that. How many builds did you try out?


RU Info: Server 4, ТАЯН, Zerus / Tiamat, Almost Russian

EU Guild: Aurorian Empire | http://aurorian-empire.eu/

What You Should Know About ArcheAge! http://archeagesourc...about-archeage/

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#14
Elrodeus

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I've played with the Skill Calculator for some hours playing with builds but I'm not sure of the exact amount. I just know everytime I'd pick a skill and see there's two other skills with synergy that weren't in any of my other trees it made me feel like maybe I need to swap trees.

Of course its possible this could all be solved with just an overabundance of more synergies between even more skills.

Danger and inconvenience are powerful motivators in getting people to work together, to reach out and meet new people, and to actually play an MMO as if there is a desire to acknowledge the "massively" and "multiplayer" aspect of the acronym.... Removing either (or both) from a game that features any type of openworld pvp is a mistake, at least in my opinion.


#15
Kriptini

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I've made tons of different builds with the skill tree calculator and haven't experienced that feeling, and from a theoretical standpoint (because there's no way for me to test them in game; that would probably weed some of them out) they're all "viable." If you're letting synergy blindly force you into making choices then maybe that means that you don't have a bigger picture of what you want your class to be.

For example, I wanted to make a build that was completely CC immune, and started with the Will tree. From there, I found that Will and Combat went together okay, and Combat provided a little bit more CC immunity. Then I added Illusion to get the rest of the CC immunity even though spells from Illusion don't inherently synergize with Combat or Will... but if you look hard enough, they actually do synergize very well, completing my build even though there's no "obvioud synergy."

#16
Rip

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nice work RIP, a couple of things I was missing: silence is used by the illusion skill "cleanse" to inflict disarmament. Buffs such as the "charge" buff from the will tree are not included.

 

Another thing that would be very nice to add would be debuffs that can be inflicted by ability combos (E.G. poison can be inflicted by hell spears from death + ravens from death) making a seperate column for that would be very useful for figuring out more combos I feel.

 

Thanks Dailato, I missed that one. I will update the list.

 

I'm currently working on all of the "buffs", that have synergy between the different trees. It seems, the  "debuffs" have a lot more synergy than the "buffs". Once I am sure I have all of the different "cross tree synergies" down, I will start to add some more functionality to the spreadsheet.   



#17
Amaterasu

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The problem is you almost feel "forced" to pick certain abilities down trees even if you don't want them because the "synergy" between the two trees is too much damage to ignore once you've invested points in those trees.

So basically you're like, "well I didn't want the fireball spell but I better get it, because this backflip skill is right here and I can get a free 0 second fireball cast if I get. So now let me get these two skills that I don't care about because I'd have to be stupid to pass up an evade ability with a free cast time."

So basically synergy is making the choice of skills for you rather than the skills just being picked by their merits alone.

 

Well, something to not forget is you want synergies between 3 skill trees. I will re use your example, taking the backflip from Vocation to combine with magic is nice and all, but if you have something like Devotion as 3rd tree, then it's much better to have Will (blink!) because it will synergize with both of your trees instead of just one. So there is still a decent amount of variations depending on what you want to do, how you like to play and so on.

 

Not to say the game is fullproof though, you guys are right in that, some trees synergize so well together that they tend to come back a lot in builds. But I think that's to be expected, even so there is still a decent amount of options and choices, and not at the cost of strategic and interesting combat gameplay.



#18
Rip

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I have been unable to update the synergy spreadsheet, due to some very confusing, "in game" testing results. I do not speak or read Korean, so it can be very challenging. I am currently on server #3, If any other, English speaking players want to help me, test some, "in game" synergy mechanics, please post here. 

 

Some interesting observations:

 

                                                                                               There are 59 total abilities in the game.

 

                                                                                                              28 Debuff  Abilities 

                                                                                                              28 Buff Abilities 

                                                                                                                3 Special Stacking Abilities  

 

                                                                                                                  SYNERGY

 

                                                                                                               19 Debuffs have cross tree synergy

                                                                                                                 3 Buffs have cross tree synergy

                                                                                                                 2 Stacking abilities have cross tree synergy 

 

And, just in case, your thinking, who cares about this synergy crap................. let me explain.............. A very small, well organized group, with "complementing" synergy, can completely "steamroll" a much, much larger group.



#19
Evangelion

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its time to make friends and kill people with them, like dota 2.



#20
KeksX

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Awesome work.. may I link to this on my review? Saves a lot of time :)

Awesome work.. may I link to this on my review? Saves a lot of time :)

RU Info: Server 4, ТАЯН, Zerus / Tiamat, Almost Russian

EU Guild: Aurorian Empire | http://aurorian-empire.eu/

What You Should Know About ArcheAge! http://archeagesourc...about-archeage/

(Discontinued) Korean Retail and PTR News! http://archeagesourc...etail-ptr-news/ http://archeagesourc...l-general-news/

English Guides and Tutorials List by LlexX! http://archeagesourc...st-to-archeage/