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Lack of Death Penalty


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#81
Larudior

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I support a Death penalty that makes it sting a bit when you die so you do your best to avoid it.

Maybe there could be different death penalty systems depending on servers or something I don't know.

Anything that makes the kick of surviving something challenging bigger I'm for it <3.
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#82
Dredek

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I would still be in favor of adding some type of bounty system for PKs. Perhaps turning in blood stains adds a bounty to the player that killed someone, or the player that was killed could create a bounty for that player. I think it would add excitement for the player doing the PKing and a way of revenge for the player getting PKd. Or maybe even a general bounty system so you could place a bounty on anyone you didnt like.
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#83
Veasna

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I want a firm penalty that discouriges ganking of players, own faction and oppsosite faction, maybe thats carebearish of me but i have no respect for people that go around getting their rocks off killing people that are much lower level than they.
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#84
Cavarath

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You are aware of that we are talking about penalties for the person being killed here, right?
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#85
Beryls

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I want a firm penalty that discouriges ganking of players, own faction and oppsosite faction, maybe thats carebearish of me but i have no respect for people that go around getting their rocks off killing people that are much lower level than they.


Why play an open world PvP then? I hate getting ganked but thats part of the excitement of an open world PvP. while i do like the idea of reprecussions say you kill someone of the same faction within city limits, you should suffer, ie have a bounty placed on you. but if you kill someone of the opposite faction in your city you should be rewarded for killing a spy! And on 3rd continent its FFA!!!!!
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#86
Benseine

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Why play an open world PvP then? I hate getting ganked but thats part of the excitement of an open world PvP. while i do like the idea of reprecussions say you kill someone of the same faction within city limits, you should suffer, ie have a bounty placed on you. but if you kill someone of the opposite faction in your city you should be rewarded for killing a spy! And on 3rd continent its FFA!!!!!


I totaly agree with you!


But to steer this discussion back on track... In my opinion the exitement of an open world pvp experience is even greater if you loose something when you get killed. some of your gear and/or resources you carry (or everything :) ) I'm not fond of death penalties like loss of xp or annoying debuffs.
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#87
CyclopsSlayer

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Why play an open world PvP then? I hate getting ganked but thats part of the excitement of an open world PvP. while i do like the idea of reprecussions say you kill someone of the same faction within city limits, you should suffer, ie have a bounty placed on you. but if you kill someone of the opposite faction in your city you should be rewarded for killing a spy! And on 3rd continent its FFA!!!!!

My only problem with Gankers is that all too often they are just cowards looking for an easy kill. They are more than willing to farm newbies and people vastly below their level, but run like rats at the sight of any real challenge. IF they hunt like level people and such then fine, kill and gank all you want.

All chain killing newbies does is kill any new blood entering the game and driving new players to other games. Which in the long run leaves the game a barren wasteland.
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#88
Veasna

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Yes, i am talking about groups of people 10 lvls higher just farming low lvl area's for epeen and just to ruin someone elses time. This imo should be discouraged.
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#89
Dredek

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How about if you attack someone 15+ levels below you, you blow up? :P
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#90
Miyafuji

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Guys guys... why not accept my old theory.

3 main rules.

1. Never ever any reward for killing. You basically kill to stop your enemy, to hold your ground, to secure your exp or boss, you do not do it to get any points.

2. Noticeable death penalties, which differ from who killed you. If someone 10+ killed you, you get no penalty + buff to get back asap. If you are being killed by equal or lower level you lose exp... etc.

3. Karma system must be implemented in 2 ways. Normal karma which you get from killing your allies, which will make you an outlaw, free to kill by everyone and perhaps we can consider even some minor reward system for those who kill criminals. And then the harder karma points you get for killing newbies (only in newbie locations, if they wander elsewhere their problem), upon receiving which you can actually drop own stuff from inventory if you die.


That I think would solve all.
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#91
Veasna

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I agree with this in full.
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#92
Shango

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This is a long-standing debate that has been going on for decades. Some interesting thoughts on both sides of the matter can be found HERE and HERE (the top half).

Personally, I am all for open PvP FFA (with perhaps a few safe zones such as npc cities). I feel meaningful risk forces blues to band together and enhances the community of the game, reinforcing the interdependence between players and alliances of guilds, ultimately spawning emergent play. A bit more about this is included in the second half of THIS INSIGHTFUL ESSAY from Koster's blog and THIS decent write up about the appeal of UO pre-trammel (though that author botches a couple of facts/details).

Even though I support PvP FFA and feel that PK's bring something important to a game, I understand how "PvP'ing" often turns into needless griefing and can destroy the community and game world/experience. It's a very delicate balance, quite similar to ecology and predator-prey models, but what is unfortunate is that many reds are simply *NOT* smart hunters and they don't understand that you have to let your prey survive and proliferate to guarantee a continual hunt. Griefing and tormenting people to the point that the prey/carebears/noob's ragequit can turn the game into a ghost town and ultimately limits the chances for profitable and fun PvP/PK'ing...

So, to address the actual topic of the OP, there should be penalties for dying beyond the debuff and the timesink of having to walk back to the spot of the battle (or a new hunting ground). I think, at the very least, AA should embrace something like what GW2 is supposedly going to do: after X number of deaths, armor/weapons degrade and require repair. Not only would this provide a costly consequence for repeated deaths, but it would reinforce the economy-side of the game. I can still remember how in UO the very act of fighting (even PvE) would reduce the effectiveness and condition of armor/weapons (potentially resulting in them breaking, if I remember correctly). It made access to a PC blacksmith a necessity and you got to know your local smithies (and many of them would get skill gains for repairing your gear). I used to like to tip them for their service, as well, even though they normally gave me my money back. :D

Also, I think it would be reasonable for the PK to get some percentage of the money that their prey was carrying when they died (10%? 50%? 100%?), with a very low chance of looting an actual peace of gear or random inventory item from the dead player's body.... That said, I did like the earlier suggestion (can't remember by whom) that higher level players who kill lowbies would not be able to get any loot from their "victory."

IMO, the pro-"real death penalty" camp are correct that a meaningful consequence is needed if only because risk yields rewards. It's just a matter of balancing between the two camps and having some kind of mechanism in place to check griefing (which is very hard to do, admittedly). UO struggled with it (and their "solution" of a reputation system didn't work, and the eventual creation of Trammel essentially destroyed the game). Still, the Dundee write up on Raph's blog points to the reality that there are other solutions to this problem than what we are typically used to seeing. What's more, these solutions could work if the game's dev are willing to work at the problem (and not just try to find an easy one-size-fits-all solution that are commonplace in today's MMORPG's). I, for one, still remember the great thrill of helping other blues take out one of those murderous reds (but I don't forget the hard knocks and lack of fun that is the result of being continually griefed by players who view the game as little more than a hunting ground for ganking up-and-comers).

I'm not sure if this was a useful post, but I hope it contributes something to the discussion :unsure:
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#93
Erebus2075

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i find it funny that the discussing is "i wanna be a @sshole and gank people to annoy them, why don't i get specific tools to make it as unpleasent as possible for others just becouse i wanna be a dickhead towards others and try to destroy their fun since i can't have fun unless others have a sht time in the game" -_- most say it doesn't suprice me which people got this attitude.

i am pretty sure the devs as well as the people with the ability to use their brain all agree that it is suppose to be fun for all and that the ability to kill other players without reason is there to make it valid to do it for a reason "you need the territory, person is pissing you of, etc(many others already mentioned)" which is the reward of doing these things.

i doubt this game is made with the mindset "lets give the idiots powers which they can misuse to destroy the fun of the gameplay experience for others".
and hopefully they will keep it this way.
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#94
Cavarath

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You have neither a idea what you are talking about nor about what is being discussed here. If you would have actually read this thread you would have realized that every reasonable person that wants death penalty wants a lot harder penalties for gankers.

But thanks for your pointless input about a topic you have no idea of. It was really helpful. *caught*
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"Recent results of scientific research have shown that the wish of a person to get a ArcheAge beta key is the bigger the lower the post count." - Veryintelligent Person

#95
Kastle

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You have neither a idea what you are talking about nor about what is being discussed here. If you would have actually read this thread you would have realized that every reasonable person that wants death penalties wants a lot harder penalties for gankers.

But thanks for your pointless input about a topic you have no idea of. It was really helpful. *caught*




^ is actually right alot of the time, maybe people might actually want to take a second to see what he wrote instead of jumping to conclusions and going off on some random tangent that doesnt even make sense. i personally im not a huge PvP'er but it can bring a great dynamic to the game, attract more players, thus more interaction. in reguards of the original topic yes i fully agree there needs to be a harsher death penality. two sides for this, those of you that love to PvP or those of you that call yourselves PvPers and are actually gankers, having someone die at your hands and have to suffer for a while ( when i say suffer i mean more like lose xp of the last hour not like some peoples "you have to run all the way back" suffer) is gratifying to most, it brings realism to the game. for those of you that are PvE'ers you have to realize that this can be a huge advantage to you also. If you happen to be enjoying the game and you get killed by some random guy you dont much mind, its when you have to check your back every 2 minutes cause gankers are always about that gets annoying. the thing about it is MMO's the vast majority of server populations are PvE players. so if you do get ganked chances are they didnt just do it to you they did it to someone else and its alot easier to find friends to fix your problem. unfortunatly there is still a down side to this when you do get your friends together and spawn camp his body for a few levels they are usally the first ones to run to the GM's saying how unfair you are being. so yes getting ganked sucks, but linching a ganker has alot of rewards in itself.

one side note too, for the guy that said he likes the FFA darkfall system and could get rich off it, you are the ganker im talking about anyone that supports a game where a naked guy with a bow can take down the guy in plate armour with ease is retarded.
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#96
Galadhir

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This is a long-standing debate that has been going on for decades. Some interesting thoughts on both sides of the matter can be found HERE and HERE (the top half).

Personally, I am all for open PvP FFA (with perhaps a few safe zones such as npc cities). I feel meaningful risk forces blues to band together and enhances the community of the game, reinforcing the interdependence between players and alliances of guilds, ultimately spawning emergent play. A bit more about this is included in the second half of THIS INSIGHTFUL ESSAY from Koster's blog and THIS decent write up about the appeal of UO pre-trammel (though that author botches a couple of facts/details).

Even though I support PvP FFA and feel that PK's bring something important to a game, I understand how "PvP'ing" often turns into needless griefing and can destroy the community and game world/experience. It's a very delicate balance, quite similar to ecology and predator-prey models, but what is unfortunate is that many reds are simply *NOT* smart hunters and they don't understand that you have to let your prey survive and proliferate to guarantee a continual hunt. Griefing and tormenting people to the point that the prey/carebears/noob's ragequit can turn the game into a ghost town and ultimately limits the chances for profitable and fun PvP/PK'ing...

So, to address the actual topic of the OP, there should be penalties for dying beyond the debuff and the timesink of having to walk back to the spot of the battle (or a new hunting ground). I think, at the very least, AA should embrace something like what GW2 is supposedly going to do: after X number of deaths, armor/weapons degrade and require repair. Not only would this provide a costly consequence for repeated deaths, but it would reinforce the economy-side of the game. I can still remember how in UO the very act of fighting (even PvE) would reduce the effectiveness and condition of armor/weapons (potentially resulting in them breaking, if I remember correctly). It made access to a PC blacksmith a necessity and you got to know your local smithies (and many of them would get skill gains for repairing your gear). I used to like to tip them for their service, as well, even though they normally gave me my money back. :D

Also, I think it would be reasonable for the PK to get some percentage of the money that their prey was carrying when they died (10%? 50%? 100%?), with a very low chance of looting an actual peace of gear or random inventory item from the dead player's body.... That said, I did like the earlier suggestion (can't remember by whom) that higher level players who kill lowbies would not be able to get any loot from their "victory."

IMO, the pro-"real death penalty" camp are correct that a meaningful consequence is needed if only because risk yields rewards. It's just a matter of balancing between the two camps and having some kind of mechanism in place to check griefing (which is very hard to do, admittedly). UO struggled with it (and their "solution" of a reputation system didn't work, and the eventual creation of Trammel essentially destroyed the game). Still, the Dundee write up on Raph's blog points to the reality that there are other solutions to this problem than what we are typically used to seeing. What's more, these solutions could work if the game's dev are willing to work at the problem (and not just try to find an easy one-size-fits-all solution that are commonplace in today's MMORPG's). I, for one, still remember the great thrill of helping other blues take out one of those murderous reds (but I don't forget the hard knocks and lack of fun that is the result of being continually griefed by players who view the game as little more than a hunting ground for ganking up-and-comers).

I'm not sure if this was a useful post, but I hope it contributes something to the discussion :unsure:

I just love the fact that you're civilized. There are plenty of hard-headed types here who would never budge or give an opposing view a moment's notice.

You get definite "thanks" from me! :D
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#97
Shango

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Heh... thanks. ;D

I should add, however, that being "civilized" can be sooooo overrated. I don't think I'm civilized at all, but I would give anything to be a little more "beastly" from time to time. After all, as the good Dr Johnson (often quoted by Hunter S. Thompson) observed: "He who acts like a beast gets rid of the pain of being a man." :P

I wish I was a hunter in search of different food... I wish I was the animal which fits into that mood. I wish I was a person with unlimited breath... I wish I was a heartbeat that never comes to rest.
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#98
Brodey

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If your doing a civil war reenactment and you die...you lay down. In paint ball...you out till next round. Some games let you get rescued.

In PvP you should be out if you release (for x amount of time you cannot assist your side in PvP period...PvE ok), resurrection is viable to bring you back into fray. Entire party wipes...they r out of action for some time, and the enemy party advances.

No comment on looting pillaging, as I think they said you can loot mats ect.
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#99
Galadhir

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If your doing a civil war reenactment and you die...you lay down. In paint ball...you out till next round. Some games let you get rescued.

In PvP you should be out if you release (for x amount of time you cannot assist your side in PvP period...PvE ok), resurrection is viable to bring you back into fray. Entire party wipes...they r out of action for some time, and the enemy party advances.

No comment on looting pillaging, as I think they said you can loot mats ect.

The mats that can be looted are of a specific type--building materials in particular: blocks of cut stone, planks of wood, finished bolts of fabric, etc.
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#100
Brodey

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The mats that can be looted are of a specific type--building materials in particular: blocks of cut stone, planks of wood, finished bolts of fabric, etc.


This works in Pirates of the Burning sea. Pirates and other nations spawn PvP areas along trade routes. If you try to sail through and u r sunk, u loose cargo and a ships "dura" (1 durability). Ships r very expensive so it is a huge motivator. To create a pvp zone you camp and kill enemy ships (npc) by their port while flagged PvP. If they send Players then real PvP happens.

There are several ways to add and subtract points.,but bottom line: as invasion points hit a threshold the red zone pops and it is now a PvP zone. It can pop bigger one more time, and the final threshold triggers a port battle in 3 days (For port ownership)...the red stays till then.

All ports reset when one nation reaches 300 points.

Anyway it works, so "its like your salad bar...you take what u want and leave the rest." ~Big Trouble Little China.

I like the a'fore mentioned PvP restriction timer in lieu of ships durability (non-relevant) . Perhaps foreign troops advance and occupy your territory (who knows ..flag positions or whatever), and you can't repel them, then the siege battle is scheduled for castle control.

Now it is a 24/7 world...POTBS does not care, but a nation is awake always with different ships. This may not be practical with villages...so perhaps each town gets so many "No attack hours" during a week or month. Gotta sleep after all. Or perhaps, as a city hits size requirements, it is expected that it must protect itself more, and invulnerable hours diminish. Vacation days per year make sense..."Village is closed ... gone fishing ...till next week, PIKE OFF!!!".
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