67 replies to this topic

[Cavarath]

Most people prefer auction houses. But i cant understand why.
Auction houses are heavily limiting the possible trade options. They are creating one big item pool where people will always undercut others. It reduces the possibility to be a trader and resell stuff as well as it allows to buy anything of one kind without much trouble to push prices sky high. Especially server wide auction houses cause this.
Auction houses are also heavily reducing player interaction and cities feel empty.

So whats better?
I prefer private shops. Not the "old school" ones where you have to sit in a city with your char to sell something. There should be NPCs you can hire to sell, buy or trade stuff for you. Those NPCs should be placeable in all cities. Including player cities.
This would lead to local markets and people running around to shop. That means more life in cities and possibilities to resell stuff.
It also stopt endless undercutting. You can sell stuff more expensive than anyone else anytime. Even in the same city.
Having local markets does also mean that we will have trading centers. Maybe we will even see player cities becoming a trade center where hundreds of people are heading to, paying taxes to the land owner.

I know that some people doesnt like the idea of running around to find a shop to buy, sell or trade something. But i think that its the better solution at the end of the day. Especially since most people like to shop in real life. Why not in a game too?

[Zonack]

I still rather stick to the Auction House, you save much more time, and in real life I would really prefer if a store offered everything I needed.
The idea of trade cities and the like is pretty good but just on paper in my opinion, I think the people have to put a lot on effort on that, and well I do believe a world wide Auction House is the way to go, that way you have less ''WTS Spam'' and save a lot of time to actually play the game instead of spending 2 hours trying to buy Iron Ingots or sell Mountain Lions Skins.

Also concerning undercutting prices, it will also be a pain, considering people will still want the cheapest and therefore look and look and look and again spend a lot of time.
Truth is, people who dedicate themselves to sell a lot will be constantly at the Auction House checking prices and undercutting the rest, cause well those people should be rewarded for their ''efforts''.
If you are a guy who PvP's all day, kill some mob, loot this nice rare material auction it he doesn't really deserve to get the best price.
But in the other hand there is this crafter who ALWAYS gathers THAT material as well and is constantly checking the Auction House, checking prices, comparing, actively selling etc, I think he does deserve to have the better deal.

At the end of the day, Labor Points are limited, so even if someone undercuts the rest, the wares of that dude will run out and people will buy the next dude's wears and so on.
Probably LP will actually prevent this.

[PsychoPigeon]

With an influx of RMT gold, someone will just sit there buying up all the good shit and placing it back on the auction house at a higher price. If there was no RMT then I would think differently but it helps inflate the economy because you get noobs who just assume that an item actually worth 10 gold is now worth 500, and they continue selling at that price even though not everyone has enough to buy. Even if a new server opens up, that same item gets put on the auction house at a stupid price because they've seen at that price on their old server. It just infects the game forever.

With player stores it breaks it up a bit, some regions might be pricier while others may be cheaper depending on the demand. It would make you want to explore different cities on a regular basis to see what deals are on. Venture out into the world and such rather than standing idle at the auction house in town.

[Cavarath]

The idea of trade cities and the like is pretty good but just on paper in my opinion, I think the people have to put a lot on effort on that, and well I do believe a world wide Auction House is the way to go, that way you have less ''WTS Spam'' and save a lot of time to actually play the game instead of spending 2 hours trying to buy Iron Ingots or sell Mountain Lions Skins.

The economy and with it buying/selling/trading stuff is part of the game! And an essential one. Its not something you have to do to play the game. And less WTS spam means less player interaction. Less player talking to each other. Less player coming in contact with new people.
WTS spam is a good thing. Just dont implement global channels. They are a pain in the ass. Just like global auction houses.

[Indratu]

The economy and with it buying/selling/trading stuff is part of the game! And an essential one. Its not something you have to do to play the game. And less WTS spam means less player interaction. Less player talking to each other. Less player coming in contact with new people.
WTS spam is a good thing. Just dont implement global channels. They are a pain in the ass. Just like global auction houses.

I preffer AH because they are a good system against game lag in capital cities and also against scammers. Also not everyone can let his rig online everyday to sell something..or to buy.
A complex AH its what I want ( with buy and sell features)

[Cavarath]

Please read before you post.

[Jojin]

I also dislike the idea of a central AH where all wares are purchased and sold. In AA I don't think it would fit as much considering the conflicts in the land, which should segregate the different markets by locations. If they wish to have more of a sandbox feel, then the market needs to be more complex. Otherwise it will be very theme park like.

FFXIV had been working on a system which doesn't have a central AH and uses some of the things mentioned in the OP. It is still a work in progress, but I believe it is on the right direction. Such a system would provide a mini-game/job for those who truly wish to be traders, but would involve actual travel, trade and searching for deals versus standing in one place and running filters.

Another example would also be EVE. They have a auction type system, but the markets are divided by regions and products still need to be picked up from where they are being sold. Something could be translated into AA where locations would be Shops and regions would be territories.

[Veasna]

FFXIV had been working on a system which doesn't have a central AH and uses some of the things mentioned in the OP. It is still a work in progress, but I believe it is on the right direction. Such a system would provide a mini-game/job for those who truly wish to be traders, but would involve actual travel, trade and searching for deals versus standing in one place and running filters.

Another example would also be EVE. They have a auction type system, but the markets are divided by regions and products still need to be picked up from where they are being sold. Something could be translated into AA where locations would be Shops and regions would be territories.

I am currently still playing FFXIV and however the system is still undergoing improvements there are still major problems with this, market wards are already overcrowded with npcs (can't put more in, so can't sell your wares in the appropriate ward). And this is in a game that for the majority of the people is a failed mmo...imagine how it will be when it's actually popular? They have since impemented a search, so you can atleast find what you're looking for in the wards, but this also brings with it...undercutting. In the old system we had to travel to each ward, swim through a sea of 500 retainers, clicking each seperately to see what they're selling and move on to the next.

Sorry, but i want to play a MMO not for the shopping aspect, there are other games that cater to this. There is a reason AH is often used, all XL has to do is improve them. Maybe make it blind auctions, like in FF11 but without the price historie. This would make undercutting extremely hard and would promote 'fair' pricing?

Oh and please make it global, using seperate towns for this, esp with a slow travelsystem will just cause the masses to flock to 1 town and in the end it will only be useful to sell there because the rest are virtual ghosttowns for this (like again in ff11 and ff14). Maybe here a system like in EQ2 could be used, a global AH but if you want to have a tax cut you could travel to the persons house and buy from them directly? This would cater to the people who want to have their shopping fast and practical and those that want to shop around at leasure.

[Cavarath]

The massive amount of NPCs can be easily reduced by putting the items to buy/sell/trade of several players into one NPC.
And yes, there will most likely be trading centers. And thats a great thing!
But just because there are trading centers it doesnt mean that there will only be trade there.

Its just like a real economy. And thats a good thing!

[Zonack]

And less WTS spam means less player interaction. Less player talking to each other. Less player coming in contact with new people.

I disagree, most trades in MMO's doesn't go beyond ''Hello'' *trade* and ''Cya''.
While yes, you can interact with people that way there are many other ways of doing it.

-Killing people
-Offering help
-Asking for help
-Organize a group
-Call for help cause the ''Blood Soldiers'' PK guild is are on X zone killing low levels.

Etc.
I am not against the private shops and stuff, but sometimes the simpler solution is the best, still I can go either way to be honest.

[Jojin]

I disagree, most trades in MMO's doesn't go beyond ''Hello'' *trade* and ''Cya''.
While yes, you can interact with people that way there are many other ways of doing it.

While if you look at a single instance such interaction may seem very worthless, you will find on a server, such things normally end up developing. People tell their friends where they heard someone selling something. Players start to be come well known as a resource for goods. Basically great things to help foster a live and more enjoyable community.

Interacting through non-personal means, would contribute to excluding individual players from really becoming famous and enjoying their style of play should they choose such a profession.

[Maskerad]

Eve style "auction houses" would be great on the third continent given that location there matters (say, one kind of ore being more common in one area), but even if that didn't work hired merchants that sell what you sell them might be a good idea. Anything that emphasizes travel and not instant-one-click-all-distance trading is good for me.

[Zil]

When I was playing L2 there were no auction house and I could easily spend half my afternoon in the city trying to trade or sell items. I kind of liked hopping from one private store to the next, sometimes I was lucky and I could find really good deals(Because some people are clueless and don't price check). Which was an aspect that was part of the system anyways. It's satisfying to make a sale with someone.

My only real complaint about it was the fact that I had to leave my computer online all night before heading to sleep to leave my private store open. I knew some people who could just open a store and read the chat or kept trading and they were doing that all day long, which they enjoyed. This system opens it's arms and really grants anyone who can deal and trade well make some heavy cash.

Auction house's on the other side are crap... and unfortunately people got used to them. Even a 10 years old can make some kind of profit by simply putting all his items for a little less than the lowest price, the system isn't punishing at all. I was still able to apply some general market knowledge by mass buying items and increasing the average price when I knew something was hot at the moment. I have to admit though that since you simply put the items on sale and that you can log out right away eliminates issues such as long queue times.

Overall I think the best system would be private stores with the ability to create offline stores that last 5 or 10 hours(Removing you as a player on the server to free-up a spot).

Both systems provide pro's and con's, we'll see how it goes.

[DixonHill]

The massive amount of NPCs can be easily reduced by putting the items to buy/sell/trade of several players into one NPC.
And yes, there will most likely be trading centers. And thats a great thing!
But just because there are trading centers it doesnt mean that there will only be trade there.

Its just like a real economy. And thats a good thing!

Hey Cavarath,

what you are discribing here, and also in your first post, is basicly an Auction house (npc) with a buyout function, or not?

[Cavarath]

No because there isnt ONE npc but a lot of them standing on a market place selling different stuff with advertise sentences written by the players selling stuff.
And there should also be buying and trading shops. Not just selling.

Major difference even if it seems to be little.

[Xalic]

I like how FFXIV's retainer system is coming along. they have different wards for item types and a data base that you can search for an item and get a list of retainers that have that item and where they are located. I think a system like that would work well in Archeage and wouldnt keep the prices of stuff on a decline like most AH's do.

[Borawan Denali]

I like how FFXIV's retainer system is coming along. they have different wards for item types and a data base that you can search for an item and get a list of retainers that have that item and where they are located. I think a system like that would work well in Archeage and wouldnt keep the prices of stuff on a decline like most AH's do.

Although I would not be vehemently (spelling?) opposed to a system like this, I would not like this "Database" to include the price listing of the item. If we had a central database of pricing then we might as well have an auction house, this would allow for people to constantly moniter the market for deals and then rush out to go get them (Which would be the same thing as an auction house, except you have to walk a littler further). I still prefer a system that runs purely on private shops, requiring the buyer to do research and rewarding those who are willing to go out of there way for deals. This also allows producers the ability to offer deals without having their entire stock sucked up within a hour or so. I do believe that we should be given the ability to have npc vendors, perhaps in a seperate shop or perhaps your house would serve as your shop (similar to how they did it in swg). I do not believe that you need the owner to be online constantly making deal. The owner of the shop would be able to set prices, notifications to the customer, take orders (to be crafted), or even recieve messages through their vendor.

[Jojin]

Although I would not be vehemently (spelling?) opposed to a system like this, I would not like this "Database" to include the price listing of the item. If we had a central database of pricing then we might as well have an auction house, this would allow for people to constantly moniter the market for deals and then rush out to go get them (Which would be the same thing as an auction house, except you have to walk a littler further). I still prefer a system that runs purely on private shops, requiring the buyer to do research and rewarding those who are willing to go out of there way for deals. This also allows producers the ability to offer deals without having their entire stock sucked up within a hour or so. I do believe that we should be given the ability to have npc vendors, perhaps in a seperate shop or perhaps your house would serve as your shop (similar to how they did it in swg). I do not believe that you need the owner to be online constantly making deal. The owner of the shop would be able to set prices, notifications to the customer, take orders (to be crafted), or even recieve messages through their vendor.

If I remember, the search function would just highlight which Retainers (NPC salesperson) which had the item you were seeking. You still needed to go and check the prices and quantities.

[Borawan Denali]

If I remember, the search function would just highlight which Retainers (NPC salesperson) which had the item you were seeking. You still needed to go and check the prices and quantities.

In the current version, they have the location, quantity, price, and product description all on the database. Back awhile ago, SWG didn't use to have the price, quantity, and product description. Although I could be wrong on that.

[Jojin]

In the current version, they have the location, quantity, price, and product description all on the database. Back awhile ago, SWG didn't use to have the price, quantity, and product description. Although I could be wrong on that.

What? The FFXIV in game search function just put Flags next to the Player's NPC Vendor who had the items, so you didn't have to check every single one to see if they had something you were looking for at the time.

Are you talking about things like Yellow Gremlin? External Web databases that people make?