[dengar]

For those who've missed it, Star Wars Galaxies is about to die. Yes, some will argue it was a long time coming, but it's hard to argue that, perhaps besides EVE, few games boasted as many sandbox features as SWG. Player made towns that could be set up anywhere, fully customizable ships, shade sliders for color customization, an appearance tabs, pet breeding, player made quests and events (supported by the GMs and in game features, not just the community), deep crafting system, player made bounties supported by an in-game interface...

I could go on and on about what it did right, but the problem was that Sony burned many players by drastically changing parts of the game. It's understandable the amount of vitriol spewed at the SOE, but let's put things in perspective for moment. SWG came out a year or two before World of Warcraft. It existed alongside it for about another year, and then the mass player exodus occurred. Those who left still rage about what happened, preventing SWG to thrive even after they started fixing things. It may not directly affect it, but I do feel there's a reason why we see so many theme park games instead of sand boxers: ex-WoW players left and, at worse, called it an EQ clone, while ex-SWG players did their best to make sure no one played the game ever again. Both games (especially in their prime) were the definition of what their genre was all about. When SWG failed, the model seemed less profitable, and its death may only confirm that to some.

However, sandboxes are on the rise again. GW2 and TERRA are toting sandbox gameplay, and even Rift has mentioned wanting to get in on that a bit more. ArcheAge, obviously, is probably the game most of us are betting on, especially after titles such as Fallen Earth, Xsyon, and Mortal Online have been... less than impressive as new comers. Should the trend continue, and AA end up as "crap" with players vehemently screaming for others to steer clear of it, developers will probably once again back off of the sandbox models and we'll be dealing with more theme-parks. Unless funding suddenly drops, I don't think the game can do too poorly, but, again, should something happen, the best way to deal with disappointment is to simply move on. If someone asks you about it, be honest with both its strengths and weaknesses, and try to avoid doom-and-gloom sayings. Darkfall Online, in my opinion, has been one of the games that disappointed, but former players (for the most part) can discuss its strengths and weaknesses in a way that gets more people to try the game at least and help further the sandbox cause.

What the main aim of this article and, in fact, many of my articles, is to temper passion with realism as far as ArcheAge is concerned. AA has a lot of features already in closed beta that many of us have been wanting in a new game, many of which are/were in other games that aren't doing so well. Should something drastic happen, and AA breaks hearts, try to remember that the community has the power to shape the future. Developers can always tantalize players into coming back (lord knows I fall for it with WoW, especially since I know a lot of WoW players), so that even if the game isn't perfect, it has time to grow. If we go in with realistic expectations, the chance of getting burned goes down quite a bit. If we also acknowledge that, should AA not be the right game for us, we should still try to give it kudos for what it does right. Otherwise, enormous feature lists like that of SWG will go the way of SWG itself and we may once again be looking at grinds, raiding, achievements, and ladder matches for our MMO gameplay, and in the long run, I don't think anyone visiting this site wants that.

[ArcheAdmin]

SWG going down is pretty sad. :L

[Shinaji]

Just curious because maybe I missed it, but what sandbox features does Guild Wars 2 have?
As far as I've seen it's been more of a "pivot point" for theme park games.
Everything is still pretty much NPC controlled and NPC ran.
There are Dynamic events but they pretty much have fixed courses to run and repeat themselves.
Granted it's designed in a way where you won't realize it unless you play for a long time or hang out in a certain area for a long time. But it feels very scripted.

[Eligor]

Gimmics, actually though why would you consider GW2 a sandbox game? As far as I've seen you can't alter the world around you and the quests are scripted, you run to a band of thieves, kill some themes till phase is complete, thieves run and you track them down to their lair, massacre said thieves and then they just spawn back in their original place. It's like killing monsters it just takes more time.

[Cavarath]

GW2 is as much sandbox as WoW. Probably even less. The only unsual thing about GW2 is the new questing system called "dynamic events".

[dengar]

GW2 has sandbox elements because player action determines what NPC can and cannot do, not the devs. If you do not defend a town, NPCs can actually convert it from, say, a human town to a centaur fortress. Some locations that start out as mob towns can be turned into settlements as well, so all the servers will look slightly different. I've also been hearing that guilds have the same option about staking claims (though no word on if its through conquering NPC towns or if there will be some sort of actual guild vs. guild stuff going on there).

It is still a theme park game, but the ability to make a real impact on the server through light world building/conquering is still sandbox territory to me. Granted, it sounds like the city building is like Darkfall's (i.e. there's preset towns and you essentially assemble it), but it's far better than what simple theme parks offer.

[Zil]

I just don't want to walk on rails or fixed paths, any game that just stacks mountains around a zone or puts invisible walls is a fail. I want it to take a week going from one side to the other by walking.

Also being able to interact with the world sounds exciting, I'd like to be able to build a bridge in an isolated isle or create a dock which would eventually allow people to use ships to get to.

[Cavarath]

You cannot change the world of GW2 permanently. That stuff is running in a cycle. No matter what the players do. All the players can do is slightly change the result of each cycle while the next cycle will not be influenced by what the players did.

The only difference between this and the usual questing system is that you can see a bigger temporary impact on the world upon your actions while the mobs will just respawn after a few second in the usual system.

[ArcheAdmin]

dengar, on 10 July 2011 - 07:12 PM, said:

GW2 has sandbox elements because player action determines what NPC can and cannot do, not the devs. If you do not defend a town, NPCs can actually convert it from, say, a human town to a centaur fortress. Some locations that start out as mob towns can be turned into settlements as well, so all the servers will look slightly different. I've also been hearing that guilds have the same option about staking claims (though no word on if its through conquering NPC towns or if there will be some sort of actual guild vs. guild stuff going on there).

It is still a theme park game, but the ability to make a real impact on the server through light world building/conquering is still sandbox territory to me. Granted, it sounds like the city building is like Darkfall's (i.e. there's preset towns and you essentially assemble it), but it's far better than what simple theme parks offer.

If GuildWars actually had guild WARS I'd like it a lot more than I already do.

[Jojin]

I think the term Sandbox is really getting diluted and misused. A true sandbox is all about the players, the system is just there to provide the world mechanics. You shouldn't hear NPC when talking about Sandbox, in fact it is the main element which is in opposition, as it is a Non-Player.

Most of the games of late, aside from AA, seem to throw the word 'Sandbox' in as a marketing ploy. It is a word which draws attention, somewhat like 'innovative', 'original' or other terms. It is like saying, "This ice cream has chocolate like elements." Chocolate can be bitter, so if you ignore the fact it taste like bitter chemicals and makes you want to puke, yeah sure it may have chocolate like elements.

[dengar]

Jojin, on 11 July 2011 - 03:25 PM, said:

I think the term Sandbox is really getting diluted and misused. A true sandbox is all about the players, the system is just there to provide the world mechanics. You shouldn't hear NPC when talking about Sandbox, in fact it is the main element which is in opposition, as it is a Non-Player.

Most of the games of late, aside from AA, seem to throw the word 'Sandbox' in as a marketing ploy. It is a word which draws attention, somewhat like 'innovative', 'original' or other terms. It is like saying, "This ice cream has chocolate like elements." Chocolate can be bitter, so if you ignore the fact it taste like bitter chemicals and makes you want to puke, yeah sure it may have chocolate like elements.

We're getting a bit off topic (didn't think GW2 would cause this), but I want to address the "diluted and misused" aspect, particularly relating to sandbox/theme park stuff. City conquering is a sandbox feature. NPCs may help enforce it and do things from keeping things stale, but I can't see how you can argue against this. We're not talking about, say, World of Warcraft's Wintergrasp, that went hot every so often and had mechanics that almost enforced equal sharing of the territory, and even that's a far leap better than pre-assigned towns being held by a faction (which even Darkfall has). It's like Asheron's Call with NPC guard reinforcements that may not respawn, or Darkfall's cities without formal declarations, and those are definitive sandbox games.

You can try to pigeon hole the terms all you want, but the simple fact remains that there is an effort by developers to put in content better than raising level caps and increasingly powerful rewards every 3-6 months. I'd rather support theme parks that are adding these sorts of things than to continue arguments like this. Like I wrote in the article, we need to support the progress we get, or else we'll keep getting the WoW clones.

[Shinaji]

I have nothing against it, I'm glad they are doing it.
I'd consider it more of a sandbox "like" feature than a straight sandbox feature.
Looking forward to that game too after all. But if you pin the word to anything that comes along pretty soon the concept of it will dye out and no longer hold a place in the grand scheme of things because this semi sandbox imitating feature is accepted as a "full" sandbox feature.

Also the only place there will be town conquering is in the WvWvW. Which is where I'd expect any form of sandbox feature to show up, but we've very little info on that.

Anyway thanks for answering, I was genuinely curious as to your thoughts on the matter.

[Izure]

ArcheAdmin, on 09 July 2011 - 11:45 PM, said:

SWG going down is pretty sad. :L

Actually it should of died a long time ago, so people could of made emulaters without all the BS . And the people who make emulaters actually enhance the true depth of the game rather than trying to change it completely.

[Brodey]

Izure, on 02 August 2011 - 10:20 AM, said:

Actually it should of died a long time ago, so people could of made emulaters without all the BS . And the people who make emulaters actually enhance the true depth of the game rather than trying to change it completely.

There are emulators out there, but the greatest feature of the game was the people it attracted...such great times and good memories even years latter. This gives me hope that AA will act as a magnet to do the same.

Best memories:

Placing my first house by the Sea on Corellia.

Laughing my ass off watching my wookie friend dance by the campfire (tears).

Hours of crazy emotes and antics.

Decorating my house in Mos Mazi

Leveling with friends at the Tuskan fort

Taming new pets (watching them grow, naming them, and using them in battle)

Giving my friend her first cub "Pinky" (bad ass cat in the long run )

First in-game funeral for Mazi Warren and getting a chance to grieve with his family (who attended and after kept his account active because they so enjoyed the experience) His memorial stood till server shutdown.

Death-Race 2000 + ,++, +++

Wookies Night Out...Creating funny looking Wookies on some random server (Dr Zaus.."I am not a Wookie!!!") making hilarious bios, then going to the cantina to level up and perform crazy line dances, while typing funny growling sounds to confuse people. We actually made a lot of tips (Money / Gear) as people gathered to watch us laughing. Had to be there...sarrry .

Necked Corvette runs.

... (Other had to be there moments).