83 replies to this topic

[Wiseman]

Now before everyone pulls their swords out....hear me out!! I have noticed something that I did not notice originally coming to this lovely community. Their seems to be a deep resentment for World Of Warcraft. I am very aware that after this game appeared, It put a spell on developers that turned them into cloning zombies. The creative concepts that seemed to be on their arrival, disappeared into a deadly puff of uncreative smoke. The game took a lot of elements from the past, and polished them into a nice candy shell for all to eat. Lineage had already set in stone what the future could possibly hold for all (AA), but this game got so big to the point that some hated to even hear it's name mentioned along with other mmos.


The purpose of this post is not to ignite vigilance amongst the community, but to really get to the bottom of why (you), or people in the AA community really despise it so much. What does this have to do with the AA community, you say? Well...I hunt ArcheAge info with the zealousness of a crazed rat, who heard of a special cheese being developed. I'm sure some of you have ran across the interviews I have, but I found this one very interesting.http://forums.goharu...hread.php?t=175
I'm pretty sure some are gonna say, well how do you know he really said that, or he knows other people play it so it's marketing and promoting, or how do you know yadadada...listen I get it. And I have other Interviews where he clearly references to WOW passively.


Now unlike most, this does not bother me one bit, because when I see AA I already see similarities(which one could say exists in a lot of mmo's, but still...) To me ArcheAge is doing the same thing WOW did, take all of the things most developers couldn't polish(WOW included), and combine them for a great game, introducing new concepts of course. My fear is that people would eventually be hating AA, just because it has the so-called "crown" at the time...
I have played L2 and WOW, and I admired them both for different reasons. I've also found things that I disliked in both..But in the end I loved them for what they got right ..So I can't be biased... My questions are these..How do you feel about Jake Song having such a strong love for WOW, and do you feel it influenced AA in any way?....and do you feel AA is made to appeal to most mmo lovers, WOW fans included?

I know this is dangerous territory ...But........Please feel free to let your thoughts fly. I really wanna know how you guys feel about this, and why....

[LlexX]

More like WoW hate equals immunity to media mind control

P.S:
Mister Wiseman "YU NO USE Enter Key?!", you know... it adds a break to a loooong paragraph, so that our post would look more friendlier

[Wiseman]

More like WoW hate equals immunity to media mind control

lol ....There might be some truth to that. Some people who play WOW refuse to play anything else, or even look at anything else if it doesn't have big hype behind it....But others might be waiting on the next big thing...What if it's AA?...hmmmm

[LlexX]

lol ....There might be some truth to that. Some people who play WOW refuse to play anything else, or even look at anything else if it doesn't have big hype behind it....But others might be waiting on the next big thing...What if it's AA?...hmmmm

So you see, people choosing games by the "hype", and there are 2 ways to hype a game:

• by media
• by players

[Cavarath]

The problem with WoW is that it is a turning point in MMO history. With the appearance of WoW, and primarily its success, sandbox MMOs basically stopped to exist. There were some low budget games like Darkfall and Mortal Online. But just a single AAA one. EVE. And that released just a year after WoW. That means it could be counted to pre WoW games since it development started a lot earlier.
WoW stands for the end of complex sandbox games and for massive influx of people that never played anything except WoW and its clones (other themeparks).

Thats why pre WoW MMO players hate the game. Because it destroyed their beloved genre. Its those people that gather in communities like the one of ArcheAge. Its the people that are still waiting for the next game that could possibly be a good game. A game thats more like the ones before WoW. More like the good old sandbox.

So no, WoW hate doesnt equal AA love. WoW hate equals sandbox love.

AA has a lot of weaknesses and whether its going to be a good game and a acceptable sandbox has yet to be seen. Its the game with the most potential since EVE so.

[Averrie]

I am fine with WoW itself. It is a good game, for what type of game it is, IMO.

I am NOT fine with what WoW did to the genre.

[LadyZENITH]

Its not only about the games but also the community.

WOW started creating this kiddos community of completely stupid people or complete assholes. The % of people somehow worthy coming from that community, especially when it was their first game, is extreme low. Before that there were no masses of annoying trolls, bunch of senseless flames, the games were usually played by morally somehow advanced people. And being a part of such community was a pleasure.

WOW was made to attract mainstream American teenager, aka completely dull and brainwashed person. More, it encouraged acting socially awkward and insulting, because the game was not punishing such a behavior, there were not open politics, nothing. When those people fluctuated to any other game, they always brought only shit, spewed crappy ideas and when someone did disagree they would just rage and emoquit. I can pretty much notice what the person is going to turn out to after their first sentences.

That is mostly why me or Cavarath are often right away hostile to certain people when they come here. You can easily notice that only to certain ones, lot of others not. Just because we are so trained to recognize these already, and we are so angry of their very presence even before they open their mouth, that its kinda natural defense mechanism. They bring harm only, no good, to any community and any game. You can easily notice them by not making proper introduction, instantly creating new topics about things that were answer before, making and defending their opinions even if those are obviously completely stupid, etc. It is quite easy to see.

I'm not fine with wow as of a game, mostly because it is completely disgusting, and put the market in to misery of "mmo games can look shitty" and "themepark is the way to go".

[InfiniteRetro]

Well, I think WoW does get a lot of hate because in the end, World Of Warcraft is simply a game. Its like people that hate on call of duty. call of duty is just a game, its a material object people enjoy. it has no feelings, it has no grand designs to create or make people the way it does. Blizzard created a game that for the most part invigorated the mmo scene to a more public level, thus, with great exposure, comes greater dickheads lol

same with call of duty. sure, i can play it, but some of the best shooters ive played have been the little guys, games which wouldnt get nowhere near the numbers of a titan like cod online BUT offer a unique experience.

its not like the game itself or even its developers 'stomped' out any other ideas, dreams or visions other developers had. everyone is within their realm to continue on and produce their own thing because there is NO blockade on that.

this is the imporant piece...what the PROBLEM is, is the fact that PEOPLE make it a problem. And that can come from the developers themselves, but by and large, it comes from the community. I dont think its fair to blame a product, i think its fair to blame the behaviours of people in general on ANY product they use which they take to extremes and get stupid over.

as my own example, being a huge gw1 fan, when the Hall Of Monuments came out, ANET had pimped it to being this super thing which would define you in GW2. the layman understood that, the titles you earn, would give you a significance in gw2. so people grinded their asses off on the pretence this would happen even though ANET never ever said their true intentions. When ANET finally revealed their calculator which essentially applied a numerical value to any title you achieved, and then made it so as the points you accrued added up you would achieve all these things at each level, i realised they had deceived the community on the promise of a meaningful transfer into the gw2 lore etc.

its a problem because if you had the in game cash, you could actually 'buy' your way to higher levels where as people who had spent, days, weeks and months grinding for say one or two massive titles, well, it kinda of takes away the reason why you'd earn that title if some dickhead can equal the points you earn in a matter of days.

whys this matter? because i feel they took advantage of the players to give and try to get a population over to gw2. now, present day, anything negative said on gw2 and you have rabid foaming fanboys screaming at you to die, get cancer, you are moronic for even having a differing opinion. honestly, not even WoW fanboys are that bad and believe me ive been in both camps.

so, because of the decisions of people, it affected the players, and in turn, affected anyone else. Love or hate it i think Blizzard have been fairly up front with WoW and their plans from the beginning. What puts people off with any game in general will be the community, but, as in my case, the rare occurance where as someone who had invested in a game like gw1 for 7 years, it was the developers themselves.

Theres only one mmo that i ever say 'wow is better' and thats gw. why? because apart from pointing out a plethora of things like it having more content etc, the one thing that above all i see with those gw2 fanboys is this...they want WoW gone, they dont care how, they just want it gone. thats...pathetic...given that, being a social game, people have friends, loved ones that as dumb as it sounds spends loads of time playing WoW or for that matter any other game that brings people together. Wishing a game vanished off the planet because of disgruntledness for one reason or another fail to realise that while it may not matter to you...it matters to others.

So, in closing, when hating or what not on a certain game, can you really blame a digital product? or, is it more the actual PEOPLE who leave that bad taste in your mouth which, by association, makes you hate that product to.

long post lol sowwy. just in my experience despite what games we love and hate, with online gaming i think it by and large is determined by the people and how they behave, NOT the actual product itself.

[Kriegskind]

WoW formed a schism in the MMORPG genre. Prior to it and minus EQ, there really weren't full on theme park style games. WoW duped the masses into playing MMOs because it was easy and took little effort from the player to stay motivated to play. They just simply had to log in and play and they would be rewarded by the game mechanics. This was contrary to most of the games that we now call sand box. These games required creativity and input from the player in order to work.

My personal hatred of WoW came when I was playing SWG. Most of my RL friends that I played SWG with jumped ship for WoW when it came out. Then Sony decided to try and clone SWG into WoW. That was when I got fed up with WoW entirely. Luckily L2 came within that time frame. Otherwise I might have just scrapped MMOs altogether.

So what WoW ultimately did was form a generation gap between the MMO player base. A segment of that population transitioned over. Some did see WoW for what it was and quit early. While others struggled to find another game to fill the void that was left from their game struggling to cope with the WoW phenomenon. Those that got into WoW later were quite literally from a different generation. So there ends up being a disconnect between the two.

I find it humorous and sad when someone says that WoW is the best MMO, and it is the only one they have ever played. I have played a handful of MMOs pre and post WoW. There is always something missing in the newer games that was there before WoW. I am glad to see a developer sack up and take on the industry with a combination of old and new.

[PoppySaysNo]

I enjoy WoW, but I won't play it again, cause its boring without friends!!! haha but There are ret@rds who are obsessed with it, and in my opinion they are just as bad as WoW haters, because WoW Haters are pathetic to some degree. Some people genuinely hate it, and I don't mind them, I just hate the ones who judge it when it is just a game, it didnt cause the 'cloning' but other companies did the cloning, WoW was established and that was the game for blizzard, so why would they clone the game again? hmmm haha! anyway Its just everywhere you look you get these WoW Haters and these Wow Fanboys, I seriously think both need to grow up, if you hate a game that bad... something is wrong with you! like-wise if you support a game even when it is contradictory, there is also something wrong with you! it is just a game, either like it or dislike it, no need to develop emotions for a computer program... Lol.

[Cavarath]

Great example here.

[Wiseman]

Well said... ....Every last one of your replies makes perfect sense....and is true in a lot of ways. WOW created a huge world for people suck up all of that great content that people skipped over, because of high learning curves or lack of content...But I feel that WOW set the development of creative games back too many years. I too put the blame on spineless companies that chose to copy and receive a check, rather than trust in the concepts of their own ideas and listening to the people.


I agree that SWG is a great example of this. People loved that game, and when WOW came out, SOE turned into little schoolgirls who couldn't stop stalking the new boy in town. They butchered their own game, even though the people cried and screamed for them to turn back from evil. That being a AAA title, it said a lot. I agree, WOW brought top dollars to the industry, and a casual gameplay flow for those who never tried mmos, but it brought the worst out of man. Everything that you all have said, the setback on sandbox games, being the first all powerful themepark, to the lack of maturity with a lot of the community, separation in generations, to the unnecessary hate for it's popularity....All seems to be true..So this was the game that killed the idea of big companies supporting more sandboxed type of gameplay. There is no going around it...

But so far as the community, just like COD and WOW, we might bump into some of these same problems if ArcheAge takes those same peoples' interest. Every person I know that played WOW, sees AA as something they would love to try. I don't talk to kids much, so I wouldn't know their opinion..And not all WOW players are children, there are plenty of serious adults there. I only played with others I knew mostly, but I know the brats gathered there as well. I think that all of us may sadly have to ask this question..If this game is designed to function as a strong community from the ground up, will AA inevitably suffer the same problems of WOW and it's flood of bad behavior? I don't think it was the game that brought on that community, other than it's easy learning curve. I believe it is the population.


A high population brings all types of behavior...Griefers, ninjas, great support helpers, passive players, casual players, hardcore players, etc...And if a game gives more ignorant people freedom, which is true to real life community, then we could possibly see our future "now". True games like L2 and SWG, and others had plenty of mature players, but they also had a higher learning curve. I have heard from some beta players that AA has a great learning curve, mostly due to it's great tutorial function. This seems like something that will bring in plenty of new guys who would otherwise be intimidated. I wouldn't want all youth to be associated with "immaturity", and all adults to be associated with "maturity"...As I have experienced utter nonsense from both parties in my day. I just see that if a developer designs a game for everyone to play, then all of those people will do just that, "play it". The reason why kids flood to popular games is not just because they are easy or the best game. Kids being kids, want to go where all of the action and talk is at...and if their friends follow up, then their friends will follow them.... "And kids love freedom". They practically beg for it! These days, can the most popular game of the time really avoid a bad community?


Even if the company holds true to it's ideas, this bad behavior may just adjust to the game. People will flock to a bad movie, if the trailer is good enough. I can only imagine how they will react "if" they were to find out AA is actually the masterpiece that everyone said it was. This is why I feel it may be our job to make sure that their are great open minded people in-game. This being said, the future of mmorpgs is giving people more choices like in a real life community...And that's what I love about AA.. ....But The day may come when AA might have the same fight with behavior problems (just like a real community), leaving supportive "expeditionary forces" to balance things out. I wonder.......

[Renik]

I only tried wow to level 10 (1h including registration and character creation) but i have some friends who play it, from what I heard it is not only easy, there is also a total lack of competition and politics, this creates lazy and unsociable players, who do not like challenges and competition at all.

Im a post WOW player, my first MMO was ffxi, its a themepark i know and has some heaters too, but still was a great game, then SE decided to make the game easier too atract wow playes, worst part is that it worked. now the game is full of players who ask continuously for help and pl. this is how wow screwed up the quality of the players, and those players have screwedl the other games. That is why some of us hate wow.

It took me 1 year to reach level 75 in ffxi 7~ years ago, now u can reach lvl 99 in 1 week.

You can easily notice them by not making proper introduction

is a bit late but, hello nice to meet you all, it is a pleasure to join this community and I hope to see you all in AA. lol

[LadyZENITH]

*******************************

The issue with GW2 community is... I dare to say it is a product of WOW community, the game is not challenging and it is removing even more obstacles in the way of people, is even even less requiring from a player. And also... GW1 and GW2 have little together except payment model. GW1 was not an MMO, it was a lobby hub, something like Mabinogi Heroes ( Vindictus ) . You are just in town lobby, form a party and get teleported to some instance, there is not open world, there is no mass interaction thus to me it fails to classify as an MMORPG. As it comes to GW2 I will not play the game, I do not like the concept as I already told in GW2 thread.

Even Tera which disappointed concept-wise, has some people with brain in the community. There are clans for example that play that game and also mine-craft, they would... just love AA, most of them are not yet aware of its existence off course as it has nearly no coverage. But my clean purpose is scout, find worthy people, and make part of some group that will be ready and motivated for AA after I properly inform them and make them fans of the game. So later it will be easier move with someone alive, I cant build on the people from L2 as that community is pretty much death for years, only exceptions remain and that's not good enough.

GW2 I avoid from far distance.... just because of the community.


Wiseman- In a sense, you are right, but taking COD as example, if wow ruined the MMO industry, COD ruined the FPS. The first one was ok, the issue came with COD4MW, aka for some reason this stupid game became popular and screwed most of the genre. Since then those extremely dull and boring and "yeahw I play American soldier in IraQ or whenever else" games just filled the market and they are so horrible. And the community there is also horribly, comparing that with the older communities from like Unreal Tournament or Quake3 Arena, it is completely different. With FPS the community is not all that important, but the basic rules stay the same, if the people are retards, the game are being made for retards as well, and the industry goes to hell.

And you are right, the most popular game can never be surrounded by mostly good people just because most of the people on this planet are idiots and brainwashed sheep. That's why I'm really not fighting for AA to become the most popular game. But there is still huge gap between no marketing, and marketing targeted to the right audience. ATM it has no marketing, which is not good.

[dengar]

Hard to add anything new, but I'll work counter everyone else for a moment: I like WoW because it brought more attention to our genre and made it more accessible.

The chances of me getting my g/f to OK a threesome are higher than the chances I had of getting her to play Darkfall (so you better believe she laughs at old UO/AC screenshots). Nothing sucks more than having a significant other than doesn't get your hobby, and WoW was her gateway drug. She's been a raider forever, and a pretty good one, but she needs some structure.

She's currently enjoying TERA, even got a sub that will last past when I'll be able to play (I'll be in Japan in a few months it seems, and En Masse region blocked TERA in asia, and I've yet to hear of anyone getting past the block over there). AA's already seduced her with graphics, and TERA's been practice with a slightly less WoW-ish game and FFA PvP. Hell, she's been a lot more willing to kill folks lately than she'd ever been in WoW. I'm hoping that, by the time AA comes out, she'll have mastered the MMO basics, be done with linear game play, and hungry for some real sandbox action.

And WoW was the first step in the process.

[PoppySaysNo]

I dont agree with Miya, its just the GW2 will have some people from WoW in the community, but so does every game, all the games include these 'kids' or retarded noooooobs 'douchebags' you cant deny, but I think GW2 is much more challenging than WoW, it is hard to fight some mobs with the having to dodge and keep on the move constantly. Some may disagree, and oh well I cant change anyone and I know that! but the community for ArcheAge (Overall, not this site..) will be filled with people who played WoW (such as myself) its just something we will have to ignore! ArcheAge looks very fun and cool with all these housing features and things, but in the end it will just end up like other games to the degree there will be some of 'WoW's community' within AA's community. This shouldnt be a reason to ignore the game or cancel it out, cause in every game there are these stupid people, I wont name anyone but there are stupid people on this site who I think would ruin the AA community (You could even accuse me, but I dont think so mind, but I definitely see someone destructive) and I wont let that stop me from playing a game, there are good people out there, you just have to look for them! I am not saying I am nice, but if anyone asked me for help, I would help. I can be judgemental but I will help as much people as I can in GW2 when I can play it! Hopefully I will see some people here!!

[LadyZENITH]

Yeah you do not agree with me, you have proven yourself greatly since the first days you came and started spamming.... cannot even use the word speaking as there was a very little information delivered.

Off course not every wow player is idiot, there are many who are not, but majority is. For example in Tera there is this "Elin Dance Squad" guild that came from WOW and they are just straight good in every aspect. But that is 60 people... that is still an exception to the mass. If we do not attract those masses of retards its ok. I'm sorry that I had to write it like that obvious because it was obvious for any humanoid with a brain already before.

Its the same if you hear me saying stuff like Americans are sheep, or Russians are assholes. Off course I do not mean all of them... geez....

[PoppySaysNo]

Yeah you do not agree with me, you have proven yourself greatly since the first days you came and started spamming.... cannot even use the word speaking as there was a very little information delivered.

Off course not every wow player is idiot, there are many who are not, but majority is. For example in Tera there is this "Elin Dance Squad" guild that came from WOW and they are just straight good in every aspect. But that is 60 people... that is still an exception to the mass. If we do not attract those masses of retards its ok. I'm sorry that I had to write it like that obvious because it was obvious for any humanoid with a brain already before.

Its the same if you hear me saying stuff like Americans are sheep, or Russians are assholes. Off course I do not mean all of them... geez....

I dont see how this is relevent? I did not say you meant all of them, I was just clearly stating in every game there will be some of WoW's community, and ya of course I know that you know not every person from WoW is a retard, otherwise that would be completely stupid. I am sorry if you did not understand what I was trying to convey, but lets get back to the point, which I think WoW hate does not = AA Love, because there will be some people from WoW playing AA

[LadyZENITH]

It does, because we will be hating them openly by default. Until off course they prove otherwise.

[PoppySaysNo]

I hope there wont be people like that, hating people from WoW openly by default, they will be the ones ruining the community through judgement and suppression. If they act stupid or really mean fair enough, but judging someone because of their leisure is just pathetic... and that will defile the community. And if you dont agree, then I have a real life example which fits appropriately. Islam for example is a religion about Family values and love (I am not a Muslim.) but there are a few terrorists and suicide bombers who are muslims. To judge and discriminate/hate muslims because of that would just be stupid. And you might say the majority of WoW are losers, but not really, there just seems alot because the trolls and these retards troll the forums/videos and defend WoW, this makes it look bad, but in reality there are so many nice people in WoW, and I am serious. You can have such lovely chats in Oggrimmar or really nice parties. Some people might not find this, but it requires kindness to unlock other's kindness. So to have a wonderful AA community, we should not judge people, but just their actions and not because of their recreational activities.

I am finished by the way so hehe Time to go