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What Makes a Guild Great?

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#1
Cordecks

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I Hope for this to be a guide of ideas for guilds and to get their leaders, officers and members pumped up.

Most MMO players want to be in a guild. It is a vital part of the MMO community. Guilds come and go constantly in the community and few are known to stay together for an extended period of time. I believe a lot of guilds fall apart because they were created with two left feet. Nobody does it on purpose, they just do not have a clue what they are getting themselves in to.

I found this link and think it points out a lot of things people do not think about. (Warning! Long Read). It is very detailed so I will cover a few thoughts and questions of my own, but if you want to read it go right ahead.
http://voices.yahoo....108.html?cat=19

Every type of guild can be successful be it Hardcore, PVP, Casual, Chatbox.

What are your opinions on the following subjects when it comes to a great guild?

1. Code of Conduct (Rules) - Every guild has different rules. A few rules seem to find their way in to many guilds such as "no greifing" and "respect", but this can come down to age limit or maturity level, online time or wearing certain colors. Do any rules make or break a guild for you?

2. Members - A guild does not exist without members. With a small guild you get to know the players on a much more personal level, while in a bigger guild cliques can be formed. In Archeage you will need a decent size guild to be able to do Siege events, but not all guilds are going to participate in this part of the game. Do you prefer bigger guilds or smaller guilds and when does big become too big? What do you think about limitation on the number of guild members?

3. Leadership - With rules comes the need to enforce them. This could possibly be the most important part of a guild. Not only for a guild leader, but your officers can be just as effective to helping or destroying a guild. What do you picture a good leader as? How do you choose your officers? Is there an appropriate ratio for officer/member?

4. Website/Forums - A website can be a useful tool for a guild. You can show people what your guild stands for, organize events and communicate ideas effectively through such means. Is a website mandatory? How does a websites organization make you feel about the guild? What are must haves for a guild website? Do you think forum activity should be a requirement for a guild's members?

I have a feeling I am going back to serious gaming for Archeage. What I play MMOs for is the guild factor. Without a guild I feel I should just be sticking to my console games. I'm hoping to join a guild or who knows even create one myself, but that is not the purpose of this thread.

Not all of these questions have to be answered, but are partially meant to help spark ideas. Feel free to put your opinions on these questions or even put in something you think I missed out...So with all this in mind, What makes a guild great?

-Cordecks
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"Even if armed with hundreds of weapons... there are times when you just can't beat a man with a spear of conviction in his gut."

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“I don’t care who my enemy is. If my arms get ripped off, I’ll just kick him to death. If my legs get ripped off, I’ll just bite him to death. If my head gets ripped off, I’ll just stare him to death. And if my eyes get ripped out, I’ll just curse him to death!”

#2
Fido

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The members!

No leader, no code, no rules, nothing.
With superb members every day in this game will be fun!
Everything else depends on luck. ^^
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#3
Mauzi

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Of course there's different approaches to successfully run guilds, the above being one of them and for sure isn't generally valid. Which setup you are to choose mainly depends on your goals and plans.

On the other hand I'll only say this: If a guild leader needs any such advice on how to lead a group, he better not even tries. Which obviously contradicts most internet kiddies' current behavior where being "da boss" is the key issue for many, aka "being someone" in a game to make up for RL deficits.

P.S.: Yay, Fido's quote is back !
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#4
LlexX

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Was about to ask "what did you meant by guild being successful"?:
1. successful as a healthy community (casual guild)
2. successful as an endgame guild

Then after reading the post second time i saw the answer:

Every type of guild can be successful be it Hardcore, PVP, Casual, Chatbox.


But it any case its the members who define the guild, its up to them if the guild will be successful or not.
1. Rules - if the members dont like them, they will leave.
3. Leadership - same as before, if the members arent happy with their leader(s), they will either leave or try to replace it.
4. Forums - not that important, usually there are very few people who are visiting these on a daily basis.

#5
Cordecks

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I don't think this is exactly a multiple choice answer where you pick a b c or d.probably a little confusion with the poll my bad.

While I 100% agree members are what make a guild this is how I see it. Members getting along and having fun are what make a guild good not great because that is basically the definition of a guild.

For the sake of not making this a spam of the word members, what pushes a good guild to a great guild. As in a guild that already gets along. This is all opinions.

Mauzi everyone can use fresh ideas now and then. harsh to judge a guild leader for looking in to ideas for their guild. To me shows dedication.
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"Even if armed with hundreds of weapons... there are times when you just can't beat a man with a spear of conviction in his gut."

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“I don’t care who my enemy is. If my arms get ripped off, I’ll just kick him to death. If my legs get ripped off, I’ll just bite him to death. If my head gets ripped off, I’ll just stare him to death. And if my eyes get ripped out, I’ll just curse him to death!”

#6
GangstaSora

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on the rules part I hate age rules for guilds
in the three months I played wow I got turned down by 3 guilds simply because I was twelve
I think that guilds should except members based on maturity levels instead
trust me I have played (not long) with people who are thirty years old and have a hobby of PKing low levels and other bad things
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#7
LlexX

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on the rules part I hate age rules for guilds
in the three months I played wow I got turned down by 3 guilds simply because I was twelve
I think that guilds should except members based on maturity levels instead
trust me I have played (not long) with people who are thirty years old and have a hobby of PKing low levels and other bad things

In a social-community orientated guild its the basic rule, and in some way it does define the maturity level, ofc not in every case, had experienced that a 10 year old kid was acting more mature then a 30 year old. But the thing is that the kids dont care that much about the guild as a community, almost all of them see it as a way to "become the best", and just using the guild as a farming train for their items.

#8
awsomeadam3

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well, if its not yet obvious, I think the members are the key part of the guild, they make or break guild. Forums can be nice, but are not necessarily for a guild. It would be best to have a devoted forum if your community is overseas/different part of the country as then your not often on the same time, while if your community is small and lives in the same region/country and the guild is focused on one game, then a forum would not be as important. Well, that's my opinion on some of things you guys mentioned.
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Beloved signature, purveyor and supplier of witticisms and bawdy jokes. Which of my many ails should I adorn you with? How should I exclaim my ample aspirations and yearnings within thine restrictive body? I do not know what to scribble on thy walls. For in my exuberance of the liberty you provide I have been fettered by my own perplexing mind. Oh, darn accursed signature, purveyor of ignorance and supplier of writer's block. I shall bring you to your knees using silly self-referential language.

#9
Famas

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Active and helpful members. A little side of pvp nvr hurts ;)
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#10
Cordecks

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For the sake of not making this a spam of the word members, what pushes a good guild to a great guild. As in a guild that already gets along. This is all opinions.


We all know members are important to keeping a good guild going.

As in what I quoted pushes a "good guild" (one with members getting along) in to a "great guild"
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"Even if armed with hundreds of weapons... there are times when you just can't beat a man with a spear of conviction in his gut."

Posted Image

“I don’t care who my enemy is. If my arms get ripped off, I’ll just kick him to death. If my legs get ripped off, I’ll just bite him to death. If my head gets ripped off, I’ll just stare him to death. And if my eyes get ripped out, I’ll just curse him to death!”

#11
awsomeadam3

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Active and helpful members. A little side of pvp nvr hurts ;)


That is probably why i always end up getting kicked out of most guilds :wub:. sometimes I just take a month break for no apparent reason, and guilds (especially those with a member cap) think i have left, and kick me. :blink:
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Beloved signature, purveyor and supplier of witticisms and bawdy jokes. Which of my many ails should I adorn you with? How should I exclaim my ample aspirations and yearnings within thine restrictive body? I do not know what to scribble on thy walls. For in my exuberance of the liberty you provide I have been fettered by my own perplexing mind. Oh, darn accursed signature, purveyor of ignorance and supplier of writer's block. I shall bring you to your knees using silly self-referential language.

#12
Wiseman

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Yea, there are guilds that require you to "literally" live in-game.

The smaller guilds are sometimes control freaks, while the bigger guilds become so big, that there is sometimes no communication.....Guilds that isolate players that they don't personally know, or see face to face in game every day, seem more like big "friend circles", than they do guilds. I guess the rules and the members could make or break it. Websites and forums are great, because they let members personalize with the experience.

I will say a great guild knows when to come together and communicate well.. B) Like every relationship, if you have little to no communication on important issues, then you drift apart, even while still being together...ahhuumm. Excuse my personal past experiences, but I feel it's a great example..lol :lol:
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#13
Eligor

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In my honest opinion, what makes a good guild is the guild itself. It's a combination of a good leader, good officers and good members and even for a good game.

Like, a good leader will try to keep members engaged, make efforts to ease people into the guild, greeting them when they log in, helping people out and whatnot. He will also try to keep them engaged, if the game permits him to.
Since i started talking about the game side, if the game is PvE centric then there's a high chance people will just get bored and quit, if the game supports PvP and PvE then there's a better chance for a guild to survive because they don't have to go absolutely crazy on any single side of it.
Then you have the officers, good officers will substitute for the leader when not online and also try to be friendly aswell as keeping a hold over the members, they will organize stuff and try to help out the leader with some of the stuff like recruitment. A lot of officers I've seen and recruited sometimes just don't care and in the end the leader get's swamped with so many worries he loses hope.
Afterwards you have the members themselves, you should try to be online and active, respond to people so you can help shape the community, and when you are about to go offline for a long while, try to leave a notice somewhere. All guilds purge inactives, member limit or not you will do it so you won't have 5 people online and 155 offline, it just looks horrible and makes your guild look horrid.

Essentially it's a group effort to keep a guild alive and be great, leader needs to put his heart to it and he also needs the support from the officers and members, if any since group goes "Ohh, feth them, I'm too lazy to care" then the guild will eventually die out. A game like GW2 for example will probably see a lot of successful guilds because it combines PvP and PvE, unlike games like RIFT and WoW that were mostly just instance runs where guilds would either go hardcore or die after a while.

td:dr version

Hard work from everyone.
Let's all pretend there's something really important written here...

#14
Laetitian

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1. Code of Conduct (Rules) - Do any rules make or break a guild for you?

Yes, indeed. If I may reinterpret. Having few rules is the worst thing that can happen to a guild.
There has to be a main idea for the guild. The list of possible concepts is to some extend limited, but still rather large. I will specify them, in order to show that there are indeed some that one might forget about.
I do so, because there often seems to be the idea, having a purpose with the guild, would make it restricting for the members and thus take the freedom.
Possible guild's purposes:
[spam]
- Achieving elitist PvP-Tactics.
- Achieving elitist PvE-Tactics.
- Building a fortress and keeping it safe. [By finding the strategy to provide defenders, and to fight for it, accordingly]
- Making a living by raiding others, or by sieging their residences. Finding a way of still enabling it to the members to prosper somewhere!
- Serving other guilds and individuals by offering defensive power, and acquiring a way of being compensated for doing so.

- Farming or collecting, and forging/building.
- Trading. Of course often together with the above one.
- Organising events for the clan, or the rest of the server's community. Well organised, these clans might even gain their monetary income with this.
[/spam]
If the person who wants to fund a guild does not declare tasks for his members to regularly achieve, that are supposed to conclude in the fulfillment of one major purpose, then the guild is a lobby for individualists to chat in, or to get the piece of armor they are still lacking.


2. Members - What do you think about limitation on the number of guild members?

I do not think this question can be answered for this thread here - where it seems to be the idea to form a common definition of a good guild's concept. That is, as this number of limit varies with the above mentioned aims. In some systems, limitations make sense, in others it doesn't.
However, it does not depend on the chosen system whether or not the people know each other. It depends on the people. Surely, at some amount of people, one cannot know everyone any longer, but at that point, groups inside the guild would evolve that ensure the 'family-like' environment, that has so often been talked about in this forum.

3. Leadership - What do you picture a good leader as? How do you choose your officers? Is there an appropriate ratio for officer/member?

#
I do not really think, the first question is as important as you say it was. As soon as there are proper rules of conduct for the clan, all the leader really has to do is obeying them and keeping ensured they are adhered to.
As for the second question: Set a small council of founders. Whenever something is to be decided, let them vote, and let the entire clan [minus the council] vote. The two results then have to accord to each other in order for a decision to be made. Since the council are the ones who the clan belongs to, they are the ones to decide if there is no settlement between them and the community's ranks.
However, in any situation where there is the slightest doubt of any corner, things should be tried to be discussed until there is a concordant opinion.

4. Website/Forums -?

This is the only thing where I found the article you appended useful.
I would seriously recommend making sure everything on the list that you can find in there is provided, when designing a guild's homepage =)
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#15
LlexX

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@Laetition
Nice summary there. :)

----------
Its funny how everyone here talking about a guild as a dictatorship or monarchy, with one leader and all the rest are being "slaves". Did anyone (except me) try something different then this fail system?
(waiting on some feedback, before writing my idea of how should a guild be organised, which isnt in a theory phase, it worked far more better then these dictatorship systems)

#16
Cordecks

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Appreciate the awesome feedback guys! Really gets the cogs moving. Keep it up :)
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"Even if armed with hundreds of weapons... there are times when you just can't beat a man with a spear of conviction in his gut."

Posted Image

“I don’t care who my enemy is. If my arms get ripped off, I’ll just kick him to death. If my legs get ripped off, I’ll just bite him to death. If my head gets ripped off, I’ll just stare him to death. And if my eyes get ripped out, I’ll just curse him to death!”

#17
Laetitian

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Its funny how everyone here talking about a guild as a dictatorship or monarchy, with one leader and all the rest are being "slaves". Did anyone (except me) try something different then this fail system?
(waiting on some feedback, before writing my idea of how should a guild be organised, which isnt in a theory phase, it worked far more better then these dictatorship systems)

I wonder what even makes you think that would be the case? =o
I am entirely for a fullly democratic system. And I've only ever been in clans in which every decision [Which were mostly of tactical kind, about future clan-events, and about whether or not applications of new members would be accepted] was done by the members. When I talked of 50%/50% with the council, I mostly did so, because I do believe that it makes sense to appoint some tasks to leaders.
If 10 people quarrel about whether they should go defend one, or another castle of invaders, and both sides have valid arguments, it needs someone to make a decision. If there is no such person, in most of the cases, you will find them splitting, and losing both battles.

Decision makers are simply needed.
However, any policy-decision should be done by all the clan-members. Thus it is provided, that these people in charge act accordingly to the ideas of the entire clan.
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#18
Shango

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All these posts and you've all managed to miss two key ingredients to a guild's success: Pie and Punch

On a serious note, I agree with most of what is above, namely that the membership makes the guild, not rules or forums or any of that.... Those things are important in keeping people in touch, informing members about the general tone of the guild, and keeping the lines of communication open.

But, guilds are also like any social contract, with the people engaged in them agreeing to do certain things and behave a certain way with the expectation that the other members will do the same. When people violate the social contract (e.g., act like greedy bastards or bad mouth a fellow guildy), then things tend to fall apart and it doesn't matter whether there is a "be nice" rule or a leader to enforce it.... It's about P2P interactions and this is why smaller groups of like-minded players tends to be more successful than giant zergs that treat everybody like just another cog in the machinery of server domination.

IMHO, whether a guild is democratic or more like a dictatorship, underneath that stuff, the people there are there by choice and it is their willingness to stay which gives their leadership power. So, while leaders sometimes need to stand up to their membership and speak hard truths, if they do it too many times or in a way that doesn't take their membership's wishes into consideration, then they will be a leader of a guild of one in no time...
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#19
Reorks

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1. Code of Conduct (Rules) - Every guild has different rules. A few rules seem to find their way in to many guilds such as "no greifing" and "respect", but this can come down to age limit or maturity level, online time or wearing certain colors. Do any rules make or break a guild for you?


Rules are necessary.
The more,the better,expecialy between hardcore-competitive players,where grudges can point up with ease and often it leads to breaking the habit and creating conflicting groups.
Common rules,however,such as recruitment requirements,players activity etc are there just in order to enforce the guild structure over the random bunchs.
Then rules can be discussed,reformed,but if you're part of a community by accepting its creed you do it in the whole aspect,taking only positives aspects in the belief to be above the rules is not gonna work,not even for top groups/players,that often gain such status cause they had the guild and its rules on their back.


2. Members - A guild does not exist without members. With a small guild you get to know the players on a much more personal level, while in a bigger guild cliques can be formed. In Archeage you will need a decent size guild to be able to do Siege events, but not all guilds are going to participate in this part of the game. Do you prefer bigger guilds or smaller guilds and when does big become too big? What do you think about limitation on the number of guild members?

Im More about larger guilds due to activity reasons but yet have to see how ArcheAge will work guild system out.
However,im not much into the "lets recruit every untagged random that pass by or ask us".
I believe theres should always be some requirements and as such i would bring aboard only worthy people,trying to put a barrier against casuals,bandwagoners,item whores and selfish minded players.

3. Leadership - With rules comes the need to enforce them. This could possibly be the most important part of a guild. Not only for a guild leader, but your officers can be just as effective to helping or destroying a guild. What do you picture a good leader as? How do you choose your officers? Is there an appropriate ratio for officer/member?

Oh,well,most successful guilds/clans ive been in had a carismatic leader and there would not fly a pen without his approvation.
It worked out pretty well until leader and former officers could manage to be very active and dedicated,but time passes for everyone...
After it slowly reformed giving the players too much freedom and crumbled down 'cause of this,lets be honest,democracy not gonna work in what i would recognize as a good guild,but often a good king should choose the right people and delegate some rights to them if they proove to deserve it.
Leader should take care of main questions such as guild rules,plans,diplomacy,recruitment and / or delegate some of those aspects to who he can trust with.
Yea it should be a strong minded person,ready to stand the drama that some unfair decisions will bring,you cant treat everyone the same cause skill,dedication and mindset wont be the same and if a certain policy match with some people might not work with someone else.
Also there will be bright moments and darker ones,in those last ones you'll see how good someone is at leading.
Classic example,worse dramas i had in L2 happened right after a lost siege,but regarding of how much having or not having a castle would impact on the game,or how leadership will answer as the activity will decrease,that might be a key factor.


4. Website/Forums - A website can be a useful tool for a guild. You can show people what your guild stands for, organize events and communicate ideas effectively through such means. Is a website mandatory? How does a websites organization make you feel about the guild? What are must haves for a guild website? Do you think forum activity should be a requirement for a guild's members?

Hmm,for structured clan activity,for constant pvp/pve groups and for recruitment is a necessary tool.
Im not minding much of the graphics,but yea a good looking website can be helpful if the clan wants to look appealing,however often is enough a vBulletin forum with organised sections and access permissions.
Im the kind of player that would check it on daily basis but is 'cuz im an organisational fanatic and i cant stand soloers or puggers within my clan. ;)


I have a feeling I am going back to serious gaming for Archeage. What I play MMOs for is the guild factor. Without a guild I feel I should just be sticking to my console games. I'm hoping to join a guild or who knows even create one myself, but that is not the purpose of this thread.

Not all of these questions have to be answered, but are partially meant to help spark ideas. Feel free to put your opinions on these questions or even put in something you think I missed out...So with all this in mind, What makes a guild great?

-Cordecks


A great guild is made firstly from his leader-officers,imho.
Then his core playerbase,some of those might be officers,some extremely dedicated and capable players,or simply the guys that the guild community recognizes as valid choices for said role.
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If I should fall to rise no more,
As many comrades did before,
Then ask the fifes and drums to play.
Over the hills and far away.
To fall in lads behind the drum,
With colours blazing like the sun.
Along the road to come-what may.
Over the hills and far away.


#20
Inporylem

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The members!

No leader, no code, no rules, nothing.
With superb members every day in this game will be fun!
Everything else depends on luck. ^^


Fido is correct :) No website or fancy rules can change the fact that if the players doesn't play together and have the same mentality guild will never succeed. I have played in the same Finnish community from almost the start of my mmorpg "career" and I wouldn't change that for nothing.
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